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Old 05-14-2013, 04:17 PM   #11
oceanbrew
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Colony collapse syndrome does not defy scientists. 20 years ago in France they had the same problem. They traced it back to some sort of herbicide/insecticide. They then proceeded to ban the use of this herbicide/insecticide. They stopped having colony collapse syndrome.
This same herbicide/insecticide is used in the United States regularly. Our government said until you can prove that this herbicide/insecticide is the cause of colony collapse syndrome then we will allow it to continue to used in the United States.
In healthcare it was very similar for sudden infant death syndrome. mini first world countries and many third world countries had figured out that it was caused in most cases by allowing the baby to sleep on its stomach. America ignored the international literature until we ourselves discovered the same thing many, many years after so many third world countries had already know this. We may be the greatest nation in the world, but we are not the best at everything. And unfortunately we do not understand this.

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Old 05-14-2013, 04:33 PM   #12
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O'brew, I believe you're referring to neonicotinoids. They along with a host of other causes have been suggested or even implicated, and there's good reason to believe they contribute, but CCD remains an enigma. One reason that an "answer" may have eluded us is that we're looking for AN answer, where, in fact, contributing causes are many and those many causes probably interact.

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Old 05-14-2013, 05:07 PM   #13
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I saw a documentary about this issue on PBS. Once the offending agent was removed the French no longer had issues with colony collapse syndrome. Obviously in America corporate profit trumps human rights and help. The documentary concentrated on the fact that the scientific evidence from France was rejected as being insufficient evidence enough to be considered by the American government as valid. The French have this problem and resolved it over 15 years ago. Yet, we still deal with it because of special interest groups. When organizations say a 'variety of factors' this means they do not want their product to be removed from the market. We have yet to remove from the market the offending agent that was found to be both used previously in France and currently in America.
I would love to continue to talk about this but I have to do other things. I do however look forward to your opinion.

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Old 05-14-2013, 05:38 PM   #14
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The question persists among scientists. PBS may have answered CCD, but science hasn't.

Now, one may say that is only because special interests have corrupted all of science on this issue (you and I might disagree as to whether France is an exception), but that leads only to the well-worn argument as to whether science can be trusted, and I believe it can, at least as well as any other source, on scientific questions. Oh, sure, we need to look at who funds the studies, peer review, et cetera. But, ultimately, science depends upon consensus and, as yet, the scientific literature's consensus is that the causes of CCD remain a matter of some controversy.

As much as I may enjoy the show, FrontLine is ultimately a better source of a gripping story than it is of science.

It's really, really hard to take a stand on a scientific matter in opposition to the consensus of the world scientific community, whether it be on climate change, creationism or CCD, without ultimately having to say "they're all conspiring, corrupt liars". I'm not in the camp that views science this way.

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Old 05-15-2013, 09:11 PM   #15
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Nature, and ecology by the same token, is naturally chaotic. The more we try to modify it and bend it to our will, the more it will misbehave.

There are a LOT of variables at play here (not just insecticide), and there probably really is no turning back while profits and increasing human population are so central to our decision-making process

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