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Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > DIY Projects > Other > Pressure gauge mounted in bottle cap
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Old 02-05-2013, 01:13 AM   #71
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I could do this test really quickly buy just filling my bottle w/gauge (see post #1 ), capping, shaking, and watching the needle.
Please do, as your cool device using numbers would probably be more convincing than my 'container feels much harder' evidence.
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Old 02-05-2013, 01:30 AM   #72
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Please do, as your cool device using numbers would probably be more convincing than my 'container feels much harder' evidence.
Alright, I'll get some video too. Stay tuned...
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Old 02-05-2013, 01:41 AM   #73
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Damn, had to fix a leak. Now I've got to drink the beer before I can attempt the test again. Might have to wait till tomorrow.

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Old 02-05-2013, 01:53 AM   #74
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I went to the store today and bought a soda bottle, just to be sure about this. Cracked it open and closed it back up tightly. The bottle was very easy to squeeze. I shook it up and now it is incredibly firm. The only explanation is that shaking caused gas to come out of solution. I don't think that there is any other explanation as to why the container is firm.
When you opened the cap you released the pressure in the headspace and altered the system. To restore equilibrium some of the CO2 would have to migrate from the solution to replace the loss of pressure in the headspace. This would be accelerated by shaking.
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Old 02-05-2013, 02:49 AM   #75
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When you opened the cap you released the pressure in the headspace and altered the system. To restore equilibrium some of the CO2 would have to migrate from the solution to replace the loss of pressure in the headspace. This would be accelerated by shaking.
Right, this is exactly what I was trying to prove. Equilibration takes time, and that shaking can induce gas to come out of solution. You know, crap, I should have left the bottle alone after shaking it to see if CO2 would be reabsorbed and the container would go back to being less firm. But, I drank it Though, I think we all know what happens when you shake someones can/bottle of soda. You have to let sit for several minutes so that equilibrium can be reestablished.
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Old 02-05-2013, 02:54 AM   #76
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I should have left the bottle alone after shaking it to see if CO2 would be reabsorbed and the container would go back to how it was before shaking. But, I drank it
Great scientific method. Eat the experiment before all the data is collected.
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Old 02-05-2013, 03:12 AM   #77
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You know after thinking about it, the little soda bottle experiment did prove that you can shake gas out of solution, but it didn't answer the question if shaking will bring it out of solution for a system that is already in stasis...The reason I cracked it open was because upon purchasing the bottle was ridiculously hard already and I wouldn't be able to tell if there was a difference just by feeling it. One of you guys with the pressure gauges, maybe you should let a filled bottle of soda sit until the pressure gauge doesn't change anymore, and then shake the bottle and see if there is a change.

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Old 02-05-2013, 03:13 AM   #78
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Great scientific method. Eat the experiment before all the data is collected.
Haha, that's how I roll.
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Old 02-27-2013, 12:05 AM   #79
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No carbonated beverage increases in pressure when shaken, not even Champagne, but the increase of nucleation sites allows the gas to rush out more quickly and with more liquid in foamy tow: http://www.phys.csuchico.edu/kagan/p...apers/soda.pdf, http://tinyurl.com/serwayjewett
After opening the container, closing and shaking it helps the bottle reach a new equilibrium.

Yeast farts on the molecular level, producing 2CO2 at a time, each about 0.3 nanometers long. As they are produced throughout the beer they are absorbed into it, and the headspace, in equilibrium. CO2 absorption is very slow as it occurs through diffusion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ch...usion_slow.gif). The data in this thread suggests that at peak fermentation CO2 could form faster than the beer can absorb it, disrupting equilibrium and collecting in the headspace. I can't find studies on CO2 formation vs absorption in beer, but it would definitely vary with yeast strain, alcohol %, and temperature.

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Old 02-28-2013, 02:57 AM   #80
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No carbonated beverage increases in pressure when shaken, not even Champagne, but the increase of nucleation sites allows the gas to rush out more quickly and with more liquid in foamy tow: http://www.phys.csuchico.edu/kagan/p...apers/soda.pdf, http://tinyurl.com/serwayjewett
After opening the container, closing and shaking it helps the bottle reach a new equilibrium.

Yeast farts on the molecular level, producing 2CO2 at a time, each about 0.3 nanometers long. As they are produced throughout the beer they are absorbed into it, and the headspace, in equilibrium. CO2 absorption is very slow as it occurs through diffusion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ch...usion_slow.gif). The data in this thread suggests that at peak fermentation CO2 could form faster than the beer can absorb it, disrupting equilibrium and collecting in the headspace. I can't find studies on CO2 formation vs absorption in beer, but it would definitely vary with yeast strain, alcohol %, and temperature.
Well damn. It looks like I was wrong about the shaking of a liquid in equilibrium bringing out gas. I'd still like to see one of you guys with a pressure gauge cap shake a carbonated liquid in equilibrium just for fun though to validate it

The data does however seem to show that the headspace can have more CO2 than it would normally have at equilibrium while it is carbing up though.

If yeast are producing CO2 and releasing it one molecule at a time, it seems that it would be dissolved pretty easily, and that for any gas to build up into the headspace, it would first have to 'un-dissolve'. If this were true, then there would never be more gas in the headspace...but the data shows otherwise.

It makes me curious about the underlying assumption. While CO2 is made in quantified amounts during metabolism, is it actually released from the cell the same way? I know gas can diffuse through a cell membrane freely, but does that imply that it is one CO2 molecule at a time? A quick google search didn't turn up anything for the mechanism of CO2 exiting a yeast cell.
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