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Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > DIY Projects > Brew Stands > RIMS for Dummies
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Old 12-16-2009, 08:52 PM   #101
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This is really nice, compact to boot! I'm going to have to build one of these on my own. I've been eyeballing different controllers for different tasks, maybe I'll just buy a brewtroller/BCS and not have to buy another one

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Old 12-19-2009, 04:56 PM   #102
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I love your design here. It looks just like the one that we built on our sr design project.

If you were to simply reverse your heating manifold you would have the fluid flowing out of the mash go across the thermocouple first, then based on your pid logic your heater would turn on or off.

From your drawing you are measuring the liquid temp as it exits the heater. That temp is not necessarily the temp in your mash tun (due to evaporation loss, convection loss, etc) and if the volume of liquid that you are mashing is small enough you could possibly have a noticeable differential.

Just a thought.

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Old 12-19-2009, 08:10 PM   #103
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If you were to simply reverse your heating manifold you would have the fluid flowing out of the mash go across the thermocouple first, then based on your pid logic your heater would turn on or off.
Bad idea.

Placing the sensor at the intake instead of the exit would effectively break the control loop (due to the very slow response of the mash tun volume). The PID algorithm would be useless at that point since the wort exiting the manifold would be significantly hotter than the wort in the tun, thus rapidly degrading the enzymes and most likely scorching the wort.

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From your drawing you are measuring the liquid temp as it exits the heater. That temp is not necessarily the temp in your mash tun...
Correct, you need a second thermometer in the mash tun to measure the actual temperature of the mash. For example, I use a bimetal analog thermometer connected to the tun with a bulkhead fitting.
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Old 12-19-2009, 08:12 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by clay9_24 View Post
I love your design here. It looks just like the one that we built on our sr design project.

If you were to simply reverse your heating manifold you would have the fluid flowing out of the mash go across the thermocouple first, then based on your pid logic your heater would turn on or off.

From your drawing you are measuring the liquid temp as it exits the heater. That temp is not necessarily the temp in your mash tun (due to evaporation loss, convection loss, etc) and if the volume of liquid that you are mashing is small enough you could possibly have a noticeable differential.

Just a thought.
You must measure the temperature as it exits the heater or you risk overshoots. If you read the RIMS threads on the forum you will come to realize this.
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Old 12-22-2009, 05:43 PM   #105
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I heat my strike water with the HEX while I heat up the sparge water on the stove in the HLT. I don't know if that is the "correct" way... but it worked great for me.
Ikonis, thanks for the pic! I especially like the "one up, one down" design....it solves 2 problems I had...first being air in the system, leaving the element exposed....and second, I didn't want residual fluid in there to cause corrosion, funk, etc.

So let me ask you this:

1) What kind of flow rate are you getting when heating water to strike temp, say 170F? How long does it take you to get 5 or so gallons of strike water?

2) What type/size of element are you using?

3) I've noticed the 4500/5500w 240v elements have a ripple, effectively creating the need for a pipe with about 3.5" ID. They are also about 14" long. Stupid question, but could you bend one of these elements? More importantly, would a 5500w element be too much juice to recirc wort for step mashing/mashout?

This thread rocks!

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Old 12-22-2009, 06:03 PM   #106
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Ikonis, thanks for the pic! I especially like the "one up, one down" design....it solves 2 problems I had...first being air in the system, leaving the element exposed....and second, I didn't want residual fluid in there to cause corrosion, funk, etc.

So let me ask you this:

1) What kind of flow rate are you getting when heating water to strike temp, say 170F? How long does it take you to get 5 or so gallons of strike water?
For my last 5 gallon batch, I heated 13.75qts of strike water to temp in just about 10 minutes or so. Of course, I started with the hottest (roughly 120 deg) tap water I could get out of my faucet (with a pur filter of course). As far as flow rate: For heating the strike water and recirc, I just leave all the valves open all the way.

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2) What type/size of element are you using?
1500 Ultra Low Density 120v element. It has the bend in it, but just squeezed together tighter so it doesn't sit on the pipe.

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3) I've noticed the 4500/5500w 240v elements have a ripple, effectively creating the need for a pipe with about 3.5" ID. They are also about 14" long. Stupid question, but could you bend one of these elements? More importantly, would a 5500w element be too much juice to recirc wort for step mashing/mashout?
As I didn't even experiment with 240v, I wouldn't be able to answer this for you. I would imagine though, that that would be a whole lot of volume in the pipe. I would think it would be hard to use it to heat strike water with that. Recirc? I don't know whatsoever. I would have loved to go 240v (for more amps), but I didn't feel like rewiring the house to give me a 240v source.

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This thread rocks!
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Old 12-22-2009, 06:10 PM   #107
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Oh and another thing, I have noticed that while in my situation, priming the pump is not an issue. The issue I am having, is the head pressure of the pump. So I need to re-plumb the exit from the "pipe-bomb" to have a shorter hose.

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Old 12-24-2009, 08:40 AM   #108
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Thanks for the update! I'm surprised to see that you get those results with a 120V element. It seems like people are getting good results with a LD 5500w element. It's not HD, so scorching is less of a concern, and it's profile is such that it can still fit in a 1.5"pipe.

Head pressure is definitely a concern in my system. I've got it all mapped out, but if the pump can't move the fluid, then it's a bust. How high were you trying to take the wort from the output? I assume your RIMS is 1.5" in diameter? It seems that a lot of the pressure comes from filling the RIMS chamber......

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Old 12-24-2009, 01:57 PM   #109
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Thanks for the update! I'm surprised to see that you get those results with a 120V element. It seems like people are getting good results with a LD 5500w element. It's not HD, so scorching is less of a concern, and it's profile is such that it can still fit in a 1.5"pipe.

Head pressure is definitely a concern in my system. I've got it all mapped out, but if the pump can't move the fluid, then it's a bust. How high were you trying to take the wort from the output? I assume your RIMS is 1.5" in diameter? It seems that a lot of the pressure comes from filling the RIMS chamber......
Well.. as best as I can measure without actually measuring it, I need to go about 8 inches up above the tube. And my exit hose is approximately 3 feet long. The pressure drop is probably most definitely the pipe. It works, I just need to leave the element off until it's all flowing through the return manifold. It definitely works better with smaller beers, so I'm guessing it is also the flow rate of the mash itself. I was just thinking about plumbing the exit with rigid copper so I can take out as many inches of the tubing as possible. Also was going to add an inline sight glass at one point in it as well.
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Old 12-25-2009, 01:11 AM   #110
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It was a transcription error. I meant to type 2" x 10" but had a brain fart.
Doh, speaking of brain fart, I ordered my stuff last week and it arrived today (from Omega and Murray). I did not realize the proble was 12" long, though going back to the link in the parts list I see it is. And, when I ordered the pipe, I had the above reversed in my brain and though that the part number was wrong and not the dimesions and ordered the 6" pipe. The result is that I now have a 4" overlap of heating element and probe.

However, the probe in your pic does not appear to be 12" long. I'm thinking about scrapping the probe (see if I can returnit) all together and going with a 4" water tight RTD from Auber, and buying a 1/2"M x 1/4"F SS Reducer from BFO to make it work with my existing pipes. It seems to me a 10" pipe would barely keep the element and probe seperated...

Thoughts?
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