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Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > DIY Projects > Brew Stands > JFK's HERMS Project
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Old 03-04-2010, 02:51 PM   #1
JFK
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Default JFK's HERMS Project

After reviewing a lot of the HERMS Rigs online I have decided to build my own. I aquired 3 kegs a few days ago and watched Bobby M. convert one on his video (he makes it look easy). I then build a jig and rented a angle grinder for 18.00 for 24 hours but they gave me the 4 hour rate of 9.00 because i had it back by 9 am the next day and i rented it right before they closed at 730pm. i cut the lids off the 3 kegs last night. I feal very acomplished even though I am very far from being done I will work on finishing up the keggles soon enough. (Have to goto court today to see how much money I have to spare. lawsuit against Paypal for screwing me out of 500.00). If all goes well I will be ordering weldless fittings for my 3 keggles today. I have a few pics of my keg converting endevours from last night.
The Jig:

The Keggles:

Me with the Keggles:

and for laughs a makeshift chiller ( I have since watched Bobby M.'s video on how to make a good one and will be doing so for my HERMS.



well that is all for now.. Off to breakfast and court. wish me luck a win today could = a huge progression in my HERMS

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Conditioning - 5 gallons Oak Aged Sweet Tart Cherry melomel, 4 1 gallon variations of my Hops Mead.
Bottled - Choujiu (Chinese Rice Wine), Hefe, Godzilla IPA
Kegged - Godzilla IPA
On Deck - Choujiu (Chinese Rice Wine), Cream Soda for the wife n kids, German Style Pilsner with Michigan Hops,
Gone - to many to list.

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Old 03-04-2010, 02:54 PM   #2
MrShake
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Your chiller looks fine man!!

Good job on those cuts! You'll really enjoy those keggles!

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Old 03-04-2010, 02:56 PM   #3
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Man, I like that Miller keg. It's shiny.

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Old 03-04-2010, 03:59 PM   #4
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I like the Labatts, looks just like mine. Good luck with your court date!

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Old 03-04-2010, 04:24 PM   #5
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Nice job on the cuts. Just wanted to mention that you can buy a decent angle grinder for about $25 at Home Depot. I bought mine to cut tops out of kegs, but have used it for a lot more since.

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Aging in a wine barrel - En Perpetuum—Solera (1/23/2011)
Kegs - May the Schwarz-Bier with you (2/9/2014) — Test Depth American Stout (8/29/2013), Big Red Imperial Red IPA (1/19/2014)

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Old 03-04-2010, 05:52 PM   #6
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good luck in court.

For $500 I'll be surprised if they even show up.

I've read the Pay pal agreement they have with vendors.
This clause is in it:

Quote:
14.3 Law and Forum for Disputes. Except as otherwise agreed by the parties or as described in section 14.2 above, you agree that any claim or dispute you may have against PayPal must be resolved by a court located in either Santa Clara County, California, or Omaha, Nebraska. You agree to submit to the personal jurisdiction of the courts located within Santa Clara County, California, or Omaha, Nebraska for the purpose of litigating all such claims or disputes. This Agreement shall be governed in all respects by the laws of the State of California, without regard to conflict of law provisions.
In my industry that is called a "Forum Selection clause" and a "Choice of Laws" clause, with which the parties agree that the courts and laws of a named State (CA) are to be used for any disputes. Those clauses are enforceable in every state in the USA. What this means is you gotta go to California to Santa Clara county or Omaha NB to sue them.

It's worse: The Pay Pal vendor agreed to be subject to the Santa Clara CA courts so they can hail you into court there, and you can't insist they come to your home state.

In only one instance have I encountered a court willing to hold such clauses unenforceable and it was as to a specific franchise type of operation and I have only encountered this once and only in one state.

But it can never hurt to ask the court to hold the clause unenforceable. What's the worst that can happen: The court says no?
You can raise a good argument about how the clauses are intended to handicap small dealers crippling them in the courts because of the costs.


I'm guessing that they they may very well just ignore you and you lawsuit.
But, You might get a default judgment. But that judgment is only good in your home state (Michigan?). And they can always show up with contract in hand and insist that the local court lacked jurisdiction. That is the death knell to your suit if the court agrees.

To the question of you getting paid:
No body writes out checks in the court rooms. the gavel comes down a verdict is uttered and everybody leaves. No money changes hands.
If you want to collect on a judgment you have to invoke a whole different universe of legal proceedings we call "collections." If the defendant is not domiciled in your home state, you gotta go to theirs and do what is called "domesticate" the judgment.

Then, if you seek to domesticate the judgment in their state, they can file for a special appearance in their domicile state and present the agreement which the cout will most likely agree is enforcable and quash your default judgment.

That all sounds pretty damn dismal, I know.

It gets worse. Most financial institutions and banks are all regulated by the UCC and your individual state versions of the UCC. It's all pretty good law that's been honed sharp and tight over the many years it's existed.

Pay Pal however, is not regulated by the UCC. They come under Regulation E. Reg E is like the wild West of financial regs. It's a sloppy undeveloped area of law and for those with troubles, it's usually a nightmare.

However, you are not dead in the water just yet.

If you get a default judgment, check the following out with your court clerk's office.
Ask if they have a protocol by which you can docket your judgment in superior court. Some states have this some don't

If you can get it transferred (docketed) in superior court then Pay Pal will have a problem.

Ya see most credit checks don't drill down to the Small claims judgments. Instead they often just go as deep as superior court. If an unsatisfied judgment pops up on a credit check it is usually death to any financial transaction involving credit.

If your judgment can be put on the records of your state's superior court you will have tied Pay Pal's hands.
They won't be able to get credit until they get that judgment satisfied and paid. That means they will have to get into court and probably in you home state revive the case plead:
(1) Failure of proper notice accusing you of having failed to notice them pursuant to the laws of your state and then of California's too (because of those clauses), (2) Insufficient jurisdiction and use those clauses to show that your lawsuit had to have been in California, (3) probably file a version of a 12(b)(6) motion just because.
They will win if they do this. But I can't see them spending the money.

And that's why you may get paid some day if they file an application for credit somewhere. Your itty bitty judgment will handicap them. It'll be easier to write you a check.

So you can at least do that.

If on the other hand, they show up to defend I really ~ REALLY ~ R-E-A-L-L-Y ~ ~ ~ would like to hear what they say. I'd like very much to see the papers they filed and what their defenses were.
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Old 03-04-2010, 09:12 PM   #7
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Well I had a bad day in court. I had to sign a dismissal to get paypal to drop the fees and costs of 1000 bux. But now i am going into arbitration with them maybe ill get my money stil but the judge was a conservative republican.. so i was doomed if i wouldnt have signed she was a Capital B to me. anyhow oh well sorry to go off topic. back to brewing stuff !! more to come on the HERMS soon. May start working with a local michigan brewer on advanced designs.

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Primary -
Conditioning - 5 gallons Oak Aged Sweet Tart Cherry melomel, 4 1 gallon variations of my Hops Mead.
Bottled - Choujiu (Chinese Rice Wine), Hefe, Godzilla IPA
Kegged - Godzilla IPA
On Deck - Choujiu (Chinese Rice Wine), Cream Soda for the wife n kids, German Style Pilsner with Michigan Hops,
Gone - to many to list.

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Old 03-04-2010, 09:15 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFK View Post
the judge was a conservative republican..
I love how you use that as a profanity.
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Old 03-04-2010, 09:44 PM   #9
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I was also wondering why a conservative republican would not be interested in seeing justice served, but I try to keep politics out of the technical forums.

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1° - Simple Cider (2/15/2014) - Saison Mead (6/26/2014) - En Perpetuum (Belgian sour base) (7/3/2014)
2° - Nuthin
Aging in a wine barrel - En Perpetuum—Solera (1/23/2011)
Kegs - May the Schwarz-Bier with you (2/9/2014) — Test Depth American Stout (8/29/2013), Big Red Imperial Red IPA (1/19/2014)

My brew rig is pretty much done :)
You should follow me on Twitter - My Brew Logs

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Old 03-04-2010, 10:15 PM   #10
Cliff897
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFK View Post
Well I had a bad day in court. I had to sign a dismissal to get paypal to drop the fees and costs of 1000 bux. But now i am going into arbitration with them maybe ill get my money stil but the judge was a conservative republican.. so i was doomed if i wouldnt have signed she was a Capital B to me. anyhow oh well sorry to go off topic. back to brewing stuff !! more to come on the HERMS soon. May start working with a local michigan brewer on advanced designs.
I'm sorry it wet poorly for you.

Maybe this will explain some of your troubles:
Quote:
14.4 Improperly Filed Litigation. All claims you bring against PayPal must be resolved in accordance with section 14 of this Agreement. All claims filed or brought contrary to section 14 shall be considered improperly filed a breach of this Agreement. Should you file a claim contrary to section 14, PayPal may recover attorneys fees and costs (including in-house attorneys and paralegals) up to $1,000.00 USD, provided that PayPal has notified you in writing of the improperly filed claim, and you have failed to promptly withdraw the claim.
So according to the agreement which you signed, you were in breach of the agreement by filing anywhere besides CA or NB.

Go here:
https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/?&...p%20With%20You.
Read section 14 Disputes with Pay Pal.
It's all there in agonizing black and white. It's the agreement you signed.

Blaming the judge is just wrong. Her job is not to provide cover to the litigants, but merely to enforce the law and in your case the Agreement which you signed.

Pay Pal is a sophisticated business enterprise. There are things you need to do to protect yourself when dealing with them
You gotta have a separate bank account just for them, and never keep any money in it that you don't expect them to take.
And ya gotta read every single word in every agreement or document you sign read 'em slowly and more than once.
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