1 BBL Brewery Build ( Brutus Inspired)

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Jaybrinks

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Joined
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Location
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There have been a lot of build threads made. I have studied many of them and learned a lot. They all had something of value to me and I appreciate the time the builders spent documenting their builds.....very valuable!! I hope I can pass it on with this build.....and maybe show off a nice brew stand too!!! :)

I partnered up with a good friend and am now part of Soos Creek Brewing Co.......a Nano brewery located near Seattle, WA. Currently we brew on a 1/2 bbl 3 tier system. We are increasing our capacity to 1bbl to increase production...and to create our future "pilot system"

We chose to go with kettles from Stout Tanks in Portland......much shipping $$ saved...and they are beautiful!! We pick them up Saturday.

The system: Nothing too original here...it will be modeled loosely after Lonnie's Brutus. It is a single tier stand made from .095", 1-1/2" mild steel square tubing.

Temps will be controlled by Love Switches via Honeywell Spark Ignition Modules to fire the solenoid valves. Gas will flow through both a High Pressure manifold to the burners, and a Low pressure manifold to the pilot lights. It will be fueled by high pressure propane. Fluids will be controlled by 2 March pumps....1-809 and 1-815. Returns will go through the lids.

I am now in the process of welding the stand, so I will try not to get lazy and make sure to post my progress. I will also post a parts list when everything has been purchased. Cheers!!

A special thanks to KLADUE for the help he gave me in designing and understanding the gas system. Thanks man!!!

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Looking forward to seeing your build grow....especially love the schematic diagrams you included.
 
Looking forward to seeing your build grow....especially love the schematic diagrams you included.

That diagram was a huge help for me in understanding how to utilize high pressure propane, and have a safe operating system. Thanks to HBT member Kladue for that!

Looking forward as well, what burner are you planning on for the system?

We will be using the 11" hurricane / banjo style burners....running high pressure propane.
 
Here is a sample panel diagram with one larger transformer and Love TS2 controllers. https://picasaweb.google.com/kevin.ladue/PanelWiringDiagram#5507979690350514498. It was designed for another application with pumps and valves, just have not had enough time to finish the one with gas plumbing as work load has been a bit extreme lately doing burner control repair and tuning for Bayer Crop Science, and keeping 14 people busy on an Intel campus.
 
Here is a sample panel diagram with one larger transformer and Love TS2 controllers. https://picasaweb.google.com/kevin.ladue/PanelWiringDiagram#5507979690350514498. It was designed for another application with pumps and valves, just have not had enough time to finish the one with gas plumbing as work load has been a bit extreme lately doing burner control repair and tuning for Bayer Crop Science, and keeping 14 people busy on an Intel campus.

Thanks Kevin....This is great!! Thank you!! I appreciate everything you have helped with.

Our kettles arrived today.....wow are they shiny!! Of course I had to assemble everything and get them on the brew stand for a photo op. I threw my keggle near the boil kettle for a size reference.

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You need something to raise the kettles off the frame so the fire can escape, I used 1" X 1/4" flat bar on edge to make a star shape support for the kettle bottom. This was placed on the supports to provide venting during operation, for kegs, a cutout in the skirt performs the same function. A second suggestion would be to block the opening under the valve and sight glass to save them from the flames. Here is a poor picture of what it looked like https://picasaweb.google.com/kevin.ladue/PilotLights#5157308918816381522
 
You need something to raise the kettles off the frame so the fire can escape, I used 1" X 1/4" flat bar on edge to make a star shape support for the kettle bottom. This was placed on the supports to provide venting during operation, for kegs, a cutout in the skirt performs the same function. A second suggestion would be to block the opening under the valve and sight glass to save them from the flames. Here is a poor picture of what it looked like https://picasaweb.google.com/kevin.ladue/PilotLights#5157308918816381522

Cool thanks!! I wasn't sure if I needed to raise the kettles up or not, but was prepared to test it after I got the burners mounted....Now I will just plan for it. I am liking that star pattern...seems very efficient in letting the flames escape 360 degrees.....I may just copy that....and I will definitely figure out a way to protect all the fittings.

Off to the drawing board!!
 
Man, those kettles are serious eye candy! :)

If I may I ask a question about the Honeywell 8610 modules, why do they provide a spark ignition to light a pilot flame to then light the main burner - and not just spark-ignite the main burner and leave out the whole pilot flame thing?

Just curious. It seems like a "belt and suspenders" approach, but then I have zero background in gas burner technologies...

Cheers!
 
Man, those kettles are serious eye candy! :)

If I may I ask a question about the Honeywell 8610 modules, why do they provide a spark ignition to light a pilot flame to then light the main burner - and not just spark-ignite the main burner and leave out the whole pilot flame thing?

Just curious. It seems like a "belt and suspenders" approach, but then I have zero background in gas burner technologies...

Cheers!

It's a valid question.....Hopefully Kladue will chime in on this....I remember reading an explanation...but I would not be able to do it justice with my feeble explanation...? :)
 
There are direct spark ignition and hot surface ignition methods used, but burners are set for one fire level and do not change. With the home brew setups a pilot is the most reliable method of determining whether you have a flame for ignition at all burner settings. Trying to direct ignite a burner might work at high flame but fail at minimum flame setting, the pilot flame is constant and when properly installed works at all burner fire levels.
Some advocate the hot surface ignition method but the glow bar is not very durable, a spill of wort or mechanical damage will kill them, and the same problem with positioning them to ignite reliably at all firing levels. The hot surface ignition was designed for use in non adjustable enclosed and protected burners, not adjustable fire levels and exposed like brew stands are. Using them in that application is a good way to enter the Darwin award contest, even though some have tried it and have not gotten blown up yet it still is a bad idea. Not to sound to negative about this, but those that advocate using things in non approved or designed applications will eventually encounter the insurance company legal machine trying to recover the losses incurred from some one that got hurt or had property damage from following those instructions. Having been involved in the investigation and reporting to insurers while working for an engineering firm in the past, I do have a bit of knowledge about the probable outcome if a mishap occurs.
 
Thanks for the explanation, kladue. After reading the manual for the 8610 it does seem like a smart way to help avoid one of those "mishaps" you referred to ;)

Don't want to totally drift this thread off course, but if I may ask one last question, what operating gas solenoids do you recommend for the pilot and main gas controls when used with the 8610 on high-pressure LP?

Where are those kettles from? Do tell...

Stout Tanks

Cheers!
 
Don't want to totally drift this thread off course, but if I may ask one last question, what operating gas solenoids do you recommend for the pilot and main gas controls when used with the 8610 on high-pressure LP?



Stout Tanks

Cheers!

I will be using these for both my HP burners and LP Pilots.
 
I will be using these for both my HP burners and LP Pilots.

Thanks! I checked on the Nitrile Butadiene Rubber plunger seal verses LP use and it looks compatible (the aromatic hydrocarbon incompatibility kinda threw me there for a sec but I guess Propane doesn't fall into that category).

Definitely will be watching for the rest of your build. I may be following your footsteps eventually :)

Cheers!
 
You can buy the Y8610U kit with all the parts for low pressure operation included, or use just the ignition module and 2 solenoids (typically 1/4") for high pressure applications. You do not need 1/2" solenoid valves for high pressure, the burner orifice is .065", and the pilot orifice is .010, a typical 1/4" solenoid with .098" orifice will flow enough gas that burner will work well on 10 PSI gas. It is easier to reduce the pilot gas pressure to 11" before the pilot solenoids, and then use a needle valve for flame adjustment after the solenoid valve.
 
You need something to raise the kettles off the frame so the fire can escape.

Could you expand on this and explain the benefit of the fire escaping? I was looking at the way the kettles sit currently and there is an escape route at each corner....but maybe that's not enough? Does it affect combustion? or the btu's that enter the kettle?

Thanks again.
 
Thanks for the explanation, kladue. After reading the manual for the 8610 it does seem like a smart way to help avoid one of those "mishaps" you referred to ;)

Don't want to totally drift this thread off course, but if I may ask one last question, what operating gas solenoids do you recommend for the pilot and main gas controls when used with the 8610 on high-pressure LP?



Stout Tanks

Cheers!


If I were building a 10 gallon system I would use either natural gas or low pressure propane with the Honeywell combo pilot/burner valves like this. We need the BTU's and didn't feel we could get 'em with the low pressure options...
 
The fire has to flow up and around the kettle bottom, if it is trapped it will choke the burners and cause a lot of problems. Half of the air for combustion goes inside the burner, the other half flows up from below to complete the burn. Block that air flow and soot and CO will result, not good. With keggles the skirt can be cut to vent the trapped gasses and let the burners burn correctly.
 
Ok thanks...that makes sense.

I still have to build the burner mounts. With this application, (hp propane and hurricane burners) what do you think a good starting point for burner distance below the kettle would be? The mounts will be adjustable.
 
The fire has to flow up and around the kettle bottom, if it is trapped it will choke the burners and cause a lot of problems. Half of the air for combustion goes inside the burner, the other half flows up from below to complete the burn. Block that air flow and soot and CO will result, not good. With keggles the skirt can be cut to vent the trapped gasses and let the burners burn correctly.

If the burners are set to the right height (adjustable to the flow/pressure of gas) so the flame is hitting the bottom of the kettle at it hottest point would that not account for what you speak of? Basically if the flame from burner to kettle was 6" there would only be 1.5" of possible air restriction at the stand frame before kettle bottom. This is working on the assumption the mounting of the burner is minimal (as free floating as possible) to keep airflow unrestricted.
 
You will need to raise the flat bottom kettles to vent the burners, many others have made the same discovery after trying to get the burners to work correctly. The 4 openings at the corners are just not enough, a 1/2" spacer improves things significantly but is to light to withstand repeated use without warping. The optimum spacing is 1/4"-1/2" gap between light blue center of the flame and kettle bottom, and air reduced to give yellow flame tips. Here is a shot of the automated system home made burner in operation https://picasaweb.google.com/kevin.ladue/BoilKettle#5225673202891787298, if the air is opened up to get a noisy blue flame you are just wasting time and gas, it should be quiet.
 
You will need to raise the flat bottom kettles to vent the burners, many others have made the same discovery after trying to get the burners to work correctly. The 4 openings at the corners are just not enough, a 1/2" spacer improves things significantly but is to light to withstand repeated use without warping. The optimum spacing is 1/4"-1/2" gap between light blue center of the flame and kettle bottom, and air reduced to give yellow flame tips. Here is a shot of the automated system home made burner in operation https://picasaweb.google.com/kevin.ladue/BoilKettle#5225673202891787298, if the air is opened up to get a noisy blue flame you are just wasting time and gas, it should be quiet.

Perfect! Well that solves it right there. Thank you Kladue!

:rockin:
 
OK...finally got some work done. Lots of "life" stuff getting in the way.

We bought some flat bar stock to create the burner mounts and the grill tops. I bought the metal in 20' sticks at a metal yard...so had to make lots of cuts...My poor cheap little chop saw is having a hell of a time. :)

The grill tops idea came from Kladue....which I admit that I copied. :p They consist of a 3/4" round stock for the center hub....then 1" x 1/4" thick flat bar stock for the star pattern.

The Ignition modules, spark cables, burners, and solenoid valves showed up...although it looks like I ordered the wrong pilot burners...I ordered one without the spark module attached....so still gotta figure that out and get the right one that can handle LP.

Once I get the grill tops all welded together, I will finish the burner mounts....then it's on to plumbing in the gas system.

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Looking good, I am working towards a similar sized system, but probably using a hybrid gas/electric setup for the hlt at least (propane costs add up quickly for me). How well does your stand design support the weight of the kettles? Have you filled them up to test yet? Any bowing in middle? Thanks for the help and documentation!
 
Looking good, I am working towards a similar sized system, but probably using a hybrid gas/electric setup for the hlt at least (propane costs add up quickly for me). How well does your stand design support the weight of the kettles? Have you filled them up to test yet? Any bowing in middle? Thanks for the help and documentation!

Thanks....I have not tested it with the full weight yet. I will do that in the near future. It feels strong enough to park a truck on it. I don't foresee an issue...but if needed, I am prepared to add center legs.
 
I think you'd find more btu's by going low pressure and a jet burner. As for the valves you can use a Honeywell SV9501 with the integrated intermittent pilot and bypass the high/low piping complications.
 
I think you'd find more btu's by going low pressure and a jet burner. As for the valves you can use a Honeywell SV9501 with the integrated intermittent pilot and bypass the high/low piping complications.

Unfortunately jet burners allow for very very little adjustment...almost either on or off.
 
I think you'd find more btu's by going low pressure and a jet burner. As for the valves you can use a Honeywell SV9501 with the integrated intermittent pilot and bypass the high/low piping complications.

I could not find a jet burner that could boast 210,000 btu's like the Hurricanes do. They may be out there, but I did not find one. We also like the flexibility that the hurricanes offer. I can crank up the pressure to full blast....or back it way down for a tiny gentle flame....and they are nice and quiet.... there are fewer leak points to worry about as well....I'm sure we could have made the Jet Burner's work..but after a lot of research, these seemed like a good fit for us......I guess we will really find out once we do our first test run.. :)

The High/Low pressure piping was only complicated at first...it is actually pretty simple to do...which allows us the full flexibility of using the Hurricanes on high pressure safely, getting the higher btu's.....and having adjustability.
 
Got the corner caps welded and grinded...and the burner brackets welded in. Still have to cut the metal for the actual mounts which will attach to the burner brackets. My plan is to make them adjustable....if only for the initial calibration....with flat 18gauge stock...the one with the holes down the length of it....I'll throw a pic up once I start mounting them.

The grill tops took quite a bit of time...I am very happy to have them done!! I do not have a good work surface...so getting everything square was a PIA....I will have to do some grinding on them cause they got uneven/warped on me...so they wobble a bit. That will have to wait until I get the stand's feet caps welded in and the leveling legs installed.....then I can circle back, level out the grill tops and weld them to the stand.

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Slowly but Slowly....moving along. Got the feet plate finished so I can now level out the stand on my horribly uneven garage floor. :)

For the feet, I took 1/8" flat bar, doubled them up an tack welded them to the legs. I then used a unibit to drill out the 5/8" hole to allow the threaded feet to fit. I then Welded the nut to the plate...then grounded off the tacks...fliped them over and welded them in place.

For the record......please ask the welding police for a pardon....this is my first welding project!! Thank god for grinders!!!

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This build is very interesting and I am loving the progress. I was thinking about picking up the 210,000 btu hurricane for a 55 gal boilermaker. I would love to hear how it works on your system.
 
Looks good. We are planning on using the same style stand for our brewery addition to our restaurant. How are you planning on finishing your stand? Are you going to use high temp paint? Do you think the TBB or any other governing body will have any problems with it not being stainless?
 
Thanks Josh...I will definitely report back on how the burners do.

As for finishing the stand...we are planning on high temp paint. We currently brew on a non stainless stand, so I don't think the TTB are concerned with the stand material....just my opinion... I don't know that for a fact.

I think you can run into the nit picky stuff like that with the local health inspectors more so! TTB are mostly concerned with getting their tax $$. Good luck with your brewery addition!!
 
Jaybrinks said:
I could not find a jet burner that could boast 210,000 btu's like the Hurricanes do. They may be out there, but I did not find one. We also like the flexibility that the hurricanes offer. I can crank up the pressure to full blast....or back it way down for a tiny gentle flame....and they are nice and quiet.... there are fewer leak points to worry about as well....I'm sure we could have made the Jet Burner's work..but after a lot of research, these seemed like a good fit for us......I guess we will really find out once we do our first test run.. :)

The High/Low pressure piping was only complicated at first...it is actually pretty simple to do...which allows us the full flexibility of using the Hurricanes on high pressure safely, getting the higher btu's.....and having adjustability.

http://www.tejassmokers.com/newproducts_page6.htm

Anything above 20 jets us suitable for your BK and HLT. For the MT I agree you will not get the granularity of control.

Y'all are local in Tacoma. If you'd like a demo on a 1/2 barrel system with automation, please PM.
 
The TTB is only interested in enforcing these particular CFR's and could careless if you fermented in plastic buckets or didn't use SS in certain applications. The local control boards may be a different matter but for our state we are ok. It is sometimes tough to navigate all the different agencies and the requirements for the Feds and the state but we have found at least in WA state the LCB folks are very friendly and helpful.
 
So are you guys bottling or is your beer only available at a pub? I'd sure like to sample what you're brewing.

cheers

Thanks....and we would love for you to sample it as well...:)

No bottling yet.....just kegs. We are located in Covington, WA...which is SE of Seattle by about 30 minutes.

We are carried by a few local pubs in the area...if you are in the area....let me know and I give you exact locations
 

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