Strong butter aroma and flavor in my grape wine.

Never heard of this and can't find any info anywhere.

I have a red that has been in fermentation since last November, it's been racked 4 times, it has a strong butter aroma and flavor. The grapes were mostly frontenac and relatives, I did not de-stem them when crushed.

I had the same flavor in a white that was bottled as dessert so I don't believe its varietal. It must be part of my process, Is diacetal a factor in grape wine? The background flavor of the red is fine but the butter seems to be increasing, gravity hasn't moved for a few months.

Anyone have some insight? Yooper? Need more info?

I just picked this years grapes and I don't want the same problem.
Edit: Both the white and red have a thickish mouth feel, I assumed the white (which has been bottled for months) was due to the high residual sugar content. The white is clear, the red seems to still have some cloudiness, will a clarifier help?

Just opened one of the whites, don't really detect any strong butter aroma or flavor in it now.

Thanx!

What yeast strain did you use?

Yooper_Brew said:

What yeast strain did you use?

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Oh yea, forgot that, I have two red batches, both have the same aroma/flavor, 1118 in one, ale yeast in the other, I believe us05.

Also no lacto fermentation.

COLObrewer said:

Oh yea, forgot that, I have two red batches, both have the same aroma/flavor, 1118 in one, ale yeast in the other, I believe us05.

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Hmmm. Chardonnay is a white wine that has a buttery character to it, but I've never tasted it in a red wine. EC-1118 is very neutral, so that suprises me. Ale yeast I can see being stressed and having some diacetyl when used for wine, but not EC-1118.

Any chance at all that it's early oxidation you're tasting? Were both wines topped up to the very top of the neck of the carboy? Did you use sulfites? Lastly, when did this character develop?

Oh, a couple of more things I thought of! Did the wine "sit" on lees at all? Sometimes that can cause some off-flavors if the racking didn't occur every 60 days or less, or whenever there were less 1/4" thick. Also, did the reds undergo MLF?

OK, the white was blend (at crush/pressing) of Chardonel, Himrod and Traminette, possibly some Canadice or Reliiance also. So, it sound normalish.

Red(actually more like black) was Frontenac, Marechal Foch/Leon Millet blend (at crush), after perusing my records here is the timeline for the red:

fermentation: 10/15/09
pressing:12/16/09
oaked: 12/23/09
1st racking: 1/12/10
2nd: 3/26/10
3rd: 6/20/10.

No, no malolactic ferm, that what I meant by no lacto above, forgot what it was called.

My notes indicate butter flavor was present after pressing and has been increasing since (Guess I assumed it would dissipate). No sorbates or sulfites were added. I don't know about the early oxidation. One is in a carboy to the top, the other is in a 3 gallon bucket, not to the top.

Thanx again.

Why such a long time from primary fermentation to pressing? It sure seems like oxidation would be a risk, going two MONTHS before pressing?

Inexperience is the reason. I think you are right, I took some samples today and they appear to have a dull appearance that is more brown than red and the flavor is just not right. I should have pressed shortly after fermentation was complete, I must not have had my book at the time, I see now that campden is added quite a bit also.

The book also says there is no remedy for oxidized wine, I will be more carefull this year with my wine, I also need to take better records.
Thanx for your insights.

Well, I'd still top it up (get that wine out of a bucket and into a carboy!) and wait it out. You may find that it may not be great wine, but it may be very "interesting" wine!

I had a batch of red a few years ago that I used one of those orange "carboy caps" on, and it got a bit oxidized after it sat for 6 months or so. It was a 5 gallon carboy, and there was some definite oxidation. I ended up blending it with a non-oxidized wine, first in a glass to see how it tasted, then the whole batch. It was quite good! Now, I wouldn't recommend just doing that- you could have a big batch of "interesting" wine- but you may want to consider aging it a bit first and seeing what happens.

Wine changes quite a bit in aging, softening, etc. You could also try cold stabilization and see if that improves the flavor. It's one of those "can't hurt, might help" kind of things.

All right so should I top it off with this years juice , or water, wait a week, then cold condition? Are we talking lagerring temperature? weeks or months? or until it tastes better? or is this somethng I'll need to "feel" my way through.

Or, what would happen if I mix half and half with new juice and added more yeast? Make more bad wine? Nevermind, I just talked myself out of that, I will ferment the new stuff seperately. If nothing else I'll have cooking wine or BBQ wine.

On the new juice,
The book says to press when the must is at 1.000 is this what you would do. Do you top this with water or save some juice? Can you freeze the juice for this? I'm determined to make some excellent red wine.

Thanx for letting me pick your brain, I'm a newbie winer.

COLObrewer said:

All right so should I top it off with this years juice , or water, wait a week, then cold condition? Are we talking lagerring temperature? weeks or months? or until it tastes better? or is this somethng I'll need to "feel" my way through.

Or, what would happen if I mix half and half with new juice and added more yeast? Make more bad wine? Nevermind, I just talked myself out of that, I will ferment the new stuff seperately. If nothing else I'll have cooking wine or BBQ wine.

On the new juice,
The book says to press when the must is at 1.000 is this what you would do. Do you top this with water or save some juice? Can you freeze the juice for this? I'm determined to make some excellent red wine.

Thanx for letting me pick your brain, I'm a newbie winer.

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I would press at 1.010-1.020, which happens in about 5-7 days generally. You can top off with extra must. Lots of times I make a 4 gallon batch, for a 3 gallon finished batch. I just ferment the extra must along side in a big wine bottle (those 1.5L wine bottles with a stopper and airlock- the small "bottle stopper"- I forget the size, maybe a 3 or 4?), a growler (#6 size stopper) or even a smaller wine bottle as the volume decreases.

For this batch, I'd top up with water or a cheap commercial wine (no sense spending more money on a possibly bad batch) and keep it at room temperature for another couple of months. Then, somewhere in the 40s if you can do it for a couple of months. It might turn out better than you think!