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Old 03-21-2011, 01:03 AM   #1
HappyWino
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Default Silly mistake, can it be saved?

In short, I got my wires crossed and mixed up my Pot. Meta. with my Pot. Sorb. and ended up adding 2 1/2 tsp of Pot. Meta. into 5g of Skeeter Pee...by my rough calcs I probably have 750ppm sulfites at this point

Feeling pretty dumb about it...is this batch salvageable without turning it into a toxic swamp or should I just pour it and be grateful that it is Skeeter Pee and not $300 of grapes?

Cheers

HW

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Old 03-21-2011, 02:02 AM   #2
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If you can get your hands on a tank of nitrogen, argon, or even co2 and find a way to attach a fish tank bubbler stone to it, you can try running gas through it for a while (a half hour or more). That will remove a lot of it. Otherwise, See how it ages in bulk. With the acidic nature of this stuff, the so2 might break free.

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Old 03-21-2011, 06:41 AM   #3
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You can use hydrogen peroxide to bind the sulphite, there is a formula to show how much h2o2 is needed, somewhere on this forum.

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Old 03-21-2011, 08:25 PM   #4
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I did some research on using H2O2 to clean this mess up and found the following;

Removing Excess SO2

If you ever need to lower your SO2 due to a mistake in calculation
try splash racking or stirring vigorously to aerate. If the FREE SO2
is still too high do the following: for every 10 ppm free SO2 you
want to remove, add 1 ml. of 3% hydrogen peroxide per gallon of
wine. An oxidative reaction occurs immediately. Use only fresh 3%
Hydrogen Peroxide, available at the drugstore.Use this method to
remove up to 100 ppm, more than this and the wine will oxidize and
lose its flavor
.
Given that I need to remove something in the order of 700ppm, I don't think this is going to be viable, I guess I could try it and see how it tastes but even if it tastes fine, what is the impact of having 1 1/2 cups of H2O2 added to the wine?

I have a CO2 tank so I could try bubbling but then I'll need a couple of sulfite tests to determine if it really had any effect.

I am leaning towards just putting this one down to experience and starting over, I am only out of pocket $10-15 after all so my pride was injured way more than my pocket when all is said and done

Cheers

HW
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Old 03-21-2011, 10:39 PM   #5
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Would degassing drive off SO2? I vote to bulk age for 6 months maybe hitting it with co2 every month or so. If you are into wine making this might be a good time to get a SO2 test kit. Then again who wants to tie up a carboy for bulk aging skeeter pee.

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Old 03-21-2011, 11:28 PM   #6
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If your trying to oxidize it out CO2 will not help. Maybe a aquarium air pump with an air stone. If you have the space you could try the large amount of H2O2, and make flavorless wine.
I would also suggest you try to find some "food grade" 35%H2O2, just so you don't have to add the extra water (and what ever else in that stuff).

I'm not sure about the chem for the H2O2 trick is going for. It would make ether SO3 + H2O or H2SO4 (sulfuric acid), likely both...

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Old 03-22-2011, 02:11 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJerryrigger View Post
If your trying to oxidize it out CO2 will not help. Maybe a aquarium air pump with an air stone.
Any gas running through it will remove some of the so2. air or oxygen will only oxidize it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJerryrigger View Post
If you have the space you could try the large amount of H2O2, and make flavorless wine.
I would also suggest you try to find some "food grade" 35%H2O2, just so you don't have to add the extra water (and what ever else in that stuff).

I'm not sure about the chem for the H2O2 trick is going for. It would make ether SO3 + H2O or H2SO4 (sulfuric acid), likely both...
I wouldn't try too much h2o2. Sounds nasty to me.

You could try exposing it to copper, but this won't remove too much either.

For this much, it will be a lot of work, I would toss it and make a new batch, but that is because it will take a ton of time.

If you really want to try and save it, try this.

1-Expose it to a small piece of copper pipe (clean the pipe first). You will want to stir the mix with it for about 3-5 seconds. This will remove 10-30 parts so2 in my experience.

2-Gas it with co2 (what you have available) for about a half hour.

3-Store it in bulk for a month.

4-Repeat steps 2 and 3 until it tastes right.

Remember, so2 is harmful in large quantities, so be careful only to take small sips while tasting. Copper is also harmful in quantities, so only do this once. At the winery, we do free so2 tests in order to get our wine within standards, but before we bottle we do a sensory evaluation to make sure the levels aren't too high, but high enough to keep the wine stable. If you smell the stuff and the corners of your sinuses burn a little, the level is too high, let it go another round.
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Old 03-22-2011, 02:23 AM   #8
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IMHO, don't toss it, whatever you do. Try something, if it doesn't work then you and everyone here will know better next time. I'm new to wine and mead making and I have hundreds of mistakes ahead of me. I humbly request that you try something, anything, to save it so the rest of us might learn.

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Old 03-22-2011, 02:32 AM   #9
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I would usually agree, but he has 15x the level of so2 than he should. so2 is poison. At $10-15 for the batch, it would be easier to restart (the whole batch takes weeks not years). Dump it in a part of your yard that you want dead.

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Old 03-22-2011, 02:47 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WIP View Post

You could try exposing it to copper, but this won't remove too much either.
Would this be to make copper sulfate (CuSO4)? Though this is toxic, I think it may be similarly toxic to the SO2. Also; most copper sulfate could be removed with racking, as it is rather dense... just don't drink it if it's bright blue (a good rule in general)

On further investigation I've come to the fact that SO2 boils at -10C (14F). This means that you could likely remove it with any gas bubbled through it. If you do this you would want to go with something that would not effect the rest of the wine, and CO2 would be a very good choice.
WIP's advice sounds good to me, though for your situation I think a more aggressive approach would be more effective (more gassing, more copper exposure, and more racking because of the copper)
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