I noticed some people were looking for Koji, and there were a few ppl from MD posting here. Annapolis Home Brew carrys Koji-Kin cultures as well as wyeast sake activator packs. They are located in Severna Park or try www.annapolishomebrew.com. I personally havent made Sake before its one of the next things on deck.
What about using dextrose instead of table sugar? I've always heard people complain of "cidery" flavors when plain sugar is used in beer, so I imagine using dextrose instead would allow the flavor from the rice and Sake yeast to become more exposed.
Hey Taylor-MadeAK, I just realized that you wrote the article in BYO (Nov 2008) that I was going to follow when I brew up a batch of sake soon. would you still advise following the recipe and steps listed in that article or have you revised either (for the beginner)? I'm sure I will have many more questions for you, if you don't mind advising me. Thanks!
For those in the NYC area having problems finding Koji, I found quite a few containers at a place near St. Marks Place called Sunrise Mart. And yes, they were those Mr Taylor suggested in the article (Cold Mountain Rice Koji, 20 oz).
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Hey Taylor-MadeAK, I just realized that you wrote the article in BYO (Nov 2008) that I was going to follow when I brew up a batch of sake soon. would you still advise following the recipe and steps listed in that article or have you revised either (for the beginner)? I'm sure I will have many more questions for you, if you don't mind advising me. Thanks!
For those in the NYC area having problems finding Koji, I found quite a few containers at a place near St. Marks Place called Sunrise Mart. And yes, they were those Mr Taylor suggested in the article (Cold Mountain Rice Koji, 20 oz).
The article I wrote for BYO is essentially a slightly condensed version of the guide on my web site. I haven't made any major revisions to it, but slight tweaks are always being made (like the metric measurements I added in) and sections that I get frequent questions about are always being re-worded for clarity. Following the BYO article is fine, but if something about it causes you to have questions the most immediate answers can usually be obtained from my web site either in the main guide or the FAQ I wrote to accompany it.
If you still can't find the answer to your question, no matter what the question is, I'm always easy to reach via e-mail and Windows Live! Messenger.
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Originally Posted by Grimster
So has anyone tried bottling sake like beer with a pinch of sugar to make sparkling sake?
I haven't tried it because my technique involves double pasteurizing the sake, but if you want to omit the pasteurization and give sparkling sake a whirl go for it! Just remember that you'll need to dilute your sake down to a more reasonable alcohol content and probably add a little fresh yeast to get proper carbonation in a reasonable amount of time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gecko45
What about using dextrose instead of table sugar? I've always heard people complain of "cidery" flavors when plain sugar is used in beer, so I imagine using dextrose instead would allow the flavor from the rice and Sake yeast to become more exposed.
I'm lost as to what you're responding to, but I can answer a dextrose vs. sucrose question. Yeast makes its own invertase (and plenty of it!), so using sucrose (table sugar) in place of dextrose in any fermentation application causes zero problems. "Cidery" flavors come from too warm fermentation temperatures that result in the production of a lot of acetaldehyde, not from the use of refined sugar of any type. The idea that refined sugar in beer contributes to off flavors is antiquated, yet perpetuated by the continued inclusion of "The New Complete Joy of Homebrewing" in many new homebrewer's starter kits.
Yeah I lookt up this one too, its not possible without that koji bacteria! NO CLUE where to find it!
Wierd how it ferments starches into sugarsalcohols!
Sorry, chiming in late. Komi Koji can be purchased at the Asian Markets in your area. It is usually referred to as Enzyme. I made sake from the Korean variety. Most won't drink it. I don't particularly like sake, just wanted to give it a go to have the experience. The Koji gives it a necessary flavor. I don't think a result without it is really sake, just a rice alcohol or wine.
I'm curious how it ended up and am sure I better read beyond the first page of posts.
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Now I've read the whole thread. Great information. I have just a couple things to add. Hopefully they will help others out and start some discussion that can make us all better sake makers.
First, here is the post regarding my attempt at sake. I tried twice. Both were pretty nasty. I cooked the rice both times and used Korean 'enzyme' koji from the local Korean food market in SLC. It definitely gives it the sake aroma and I believe is an intricate part of sake. This leads me to my second thing...
Second, due to the process of the koji converting rice starch to sugars that are ultimately fermented, I am guessing that the recipe here in this thread is really not exactly sake. I presume the added sugar is fermenting and the rice, raisins, etc are just adding flavors. Since there is no enzyme to convert the rice to anything fermentable, it only adds flavor but is not itself fermented. The recipes I've seen for sake don't include sugar because it comes from the rice after conversion (done by the koji). I don't say this to start an argument, but to state my understanding of sake. Maybe I'm wrong and I know there are other experts out there than can expound so we all can make sake that doesn't suck. Mine sucked and I have lots of it, so anyone interested, come and get it...
A friend of mine makes his own whiskey. He adds sugar and some burnt wood chips and high alcohol resistant yeast to ferment it out. This recipe seems the same but using raisins and rice for flavor instead of burnt wood and no distilling at the end.
Thoughts?
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Sorry, chiming in late. Komi Koji can be purchased at the Asian Markets in your area. It is usually referred to as Enzyme.
No, koji is always referred to as koji. Only Korean nuruk is ever labelled as "enzyme" for the English speaking market.
Quote:
Originally Posted by knipknup
First, here is the post regarding my attempt at sake. I tried twice. Both were pretty nasty. I cooked the rice both times and used Korean 'enzyme' koji from the local Korean food market in SLC. It definitely gives it the sake aroma and I believe is an intricate part of sake.
Please don't take this the wrong way, but you didn't make sake. By using nuruk (the Korean "enzyme") to convert the rice, what you actually made was makgeolli. If by "nasty" you really mean sour, that's just how makgeolli is. In its homemade state it's generally considered a rustic farmhouse victual and is generally sweetened up with sugar to taste by the imbiber right before consumption.
Nuruk is very different from koji. The former is made mostly from cracked wheat and wheat flour under conditions that are nowhere near as controlled as those under which koji is made. While aspergillus oryzae is certainly present in nuruk, it is not the pure saturated monoculture that koji is. It's the presence of other wild yeasts and bacteria that contributes to the signature sour flavor of makgeolli. Also, sake yeast is always added to the starter step (shubo or moto) of sake brewing, whereas nuruk is the sole source of yeast for a makgeolli fermentation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by knipknup
Second, due to the process of the koji converting rice starch to sugars that are ultimately fermented, I am guessing that the recipe here in this thread is really not exactly sake. I presume the added sugar is fermenting and the rice, raisins, etc are just adding flavors. Since there is no enzyme to convert the rice to anything fermentable, it only adds flavor but is not itself fermented. The recipes I've seen for sake don't include sugar because it comes from the rice after conversion (done by the koji). I don't say this to start an argument, but to state my understanding of sake. Maybe I'm wrong and I know there are other experts out there than can expound so we all can make sake that doesn't suck. Mine sucked and I have lots of it, so anyone interested, come and get it...
No, the recipe at the start of this thread is not sake. It's essentially a country wine flavored with raisins and rice. I'm sorry to hear that you consider your first couple attempts at making sake such failures. For what it's worth, what you made would probably be considered a darn good makgeolli by most Koreans.
If you would like to make another attempt at sake, perhaps the link in my sig may be of some help. It's probably a considerably more involved and complex process than your last couple attempts, but it's also essentially the scaled-down home version of exactly what professional sake brewers do. I do try to keep it simple and focus on the "how," but being an experienced homebrewer you will probably have questions about the "why" for many of the steps and techniques in my guide. I'm always available via e-mail and frequently MSN Messenger to answer questions, so feel free to contact me with them.
So, I've decided that one thing I want to do before I shuffle off this mortal-coil is to brew beer. Well, I've done that for better or worse. Now, I want to branch out a bit. Can I do sake with my normal beer equipment?
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