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Old 03-23-2007, 01:36 AM   #11
gfanz
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Thanks for all the feedback. This is really helpful.

I've checked around a bit as well and it seems that for some reason nobody relies on rice enzymes from the rice itself to break down starch into sugars, but this makes no sense to me as a biologist b/c there's no point in a plant making starch if it can't use it. I wonder it the enzymes it produces just don't perform well at the temperatures normaly used for mashing barley malt????

I found this information in discussion of "American Pilsener" which pretty much confirms that noboby relies on rice to do the heavy lifting in a mash. http://www.byo.com/departments/1583.html

The corn or rice used in American Pilsners is not malted, so it contributes no starch-degrading enzymes to the mash. The corn or rice starch is degraded by amylase enzymes from the malt or, in the case of very high adjunct rates — as when making a malt liquor — by enzyme preparations added to the mash.
Also in the FAO article mentioned above it says they don't mash rice in Asia without adding enzymes, but it doesn't explain why not (http://http://www.fao.org/docrep/x2184e/x2184e09.htm)
Malting occurs naturally through wet damage of cereals during storage, and is used for beer making in Europe. However, in Asia the malting process is rarely used in traditional fermentation processes. Instead, fermentation starters prepared from the growth of molds on raw or cooked cereals is more commonly practiced.
I'll Google around a bit more and see if can find something about mashing rice malt. I found an abstract from an article yesterday about a test of different kinds of rice done in Africa, but couldn't get the whole article.

As a last resort, instead of the traditional japanese saliva enzymes trick, I've seen some cows down the street at the vetrinary school that holes in their sides. I could stick a bag of mach in there overnight and probably get things kick started.
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Old 12-21-2008, 02:50 AM   #12
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I was wondering about the rice wine recipe. Dose anyone think wine yest would work about as well as Noo-rook? All the other wine yeast sounds a lot easyer to get.

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Old 12-22-2008, 06:59 AM   #13
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Noo-ruk has Aspergillus mold in it, like Sake. Koji is the Sake starter, and the resulting brew gets up to 18-20% alcohol. Highly "polished" rice is preferred. Like beer (and unlike wine), sake brewing involves the conversion of starches to sugar and sugar to alcohol. Unlike beer, the conversion is done simultaneously. There isn't really a separate "malting" stage. Koji mold converts starch to sugar, while simultaneously yeast works on the sugars. Its called the Amylolytic process. Taylor-MadeAK - Brewing Sake is a great resource for learning sake brewing. Rice is starchy and is very low in sugars, which makes it poor for typical wine making. Even when used in beer, rice is usually combined with extra sugar as an additive.
Fermented cereals a global perspective. Chapter 3. has some information comparing different Asian fermentation techniques, Without a lot of sugar (maybe fruit juice too) plain old yeast fermentation of rice is frustrating. You might notice many Asians, including the Japanese, prefer beer and use rice wine for certain occasions.

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Old 12-26-2008, 07:01 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david_42 View Post
I've never made it, but with five pounds of fermentables in a gallon, this ought to do the trick.
Rice Wine

Makes one gallon.

Ingredients:
2-1/2 lbs. Rice 7 Pints Water
2-1/2 lbs. Sugar 1/2 pt Red Grape Concetrate
3 tsp Acid Blend 3/4 tsp Yeast Energizer
1 Pkg Sherry Yeast 1 Campden Tablet


Keep your acid tester and hydrometer handy. As with all wild fruit the sugar and acid content varies greatly from year to year and even from one location to another. The recipe above is a general recipe to use which you may have to adjust.

Directions:

1. Use husked or raw rice, rather than polished rice.
2. Wash and coarse crush the rice. Place rice into nylon straining bag and tie top. Put bag in primary fermenter.
3. Pour hot water over bag.
4. Stir in all other ingredients EXCEPT yeast and energizer. Cover primary.
5. After 48hrs., add yeast . Cover primary.
6. Stir daily, check hydrometer reading (S.G.) and press pulp lightly to aid extraction.
7. When ferment reaches S.G. 1.050 (about 2-3days) add another 1/4 lb. dissolved sugar per gallon.
8. When S.G. reaches 1.030 (6-7 days) strain juice from bag. Syphon off sediment into clean secondary. Attach airlock.
9. At S.G. 1.020 add another 1/4 lb. of dissolved sugar per gallon.
10. When S.G. reaches 1.000 (usually about 3 weeks), fermentation is complete. Syphon juice off sediment into clean glass container. Re-attach airlock.
11. To aid in clearing, syphon again in 2 months and again, if necessary, before bottling.
I tried to do it with my self and i think i satisfied my self on doing it myself...
Thanks for sharing it....


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Old 12-30-2008, 12:57 AM   #15
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Too involved lol

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Old 12-30-2008, 01:09 AM   #16
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I think it's strange that this thread was started and replied to almost exclusively by folks with 1 post.

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Old 01-02-2009, 06:57 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gfanz
Also in the FAO article mentioned above it says they don't mash rice in Asia without adding enzymes, but it doesn't explain why not
Because they mill almost all of their rice down to white rice, which can't be malted due to the removal of the germ and much of the bran coat. The reasons for this milling, especially when it comes to rice wine, are mostly because white rice takes 75% less time to soak and steam than brown rice and also because the proteins and lipids contained in the bran coat can cause harsh flavors and spoilage in sake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gfanz
I've checked around a bit as well and it seems that for some reason nobody relies on rice enzymes from the rice itself to break down starch into sugars, but this makes no sense to me as a biologist b/c there's no point in a plant making starch if it can't use it. I wonder it the enzymes it produces just don't perform well at the temperatures normaly used for mashing barley malt????
More like it just doesn't produce enough of them to make dealing with the looooong soaking and steaming that brown rice requires. You would have to sprout all of the rice in order to produce enough enzymes to convert the rice's starch into sugars to use for making sake or other jiu, and then you'd be losing out on the flavors that koji brings to the party in a sake fermentation.

More information on "sprouted rice:" The article about pasted into a post in this derailed forum thread - you'll have to scroll down to find it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cristobaldelicia
Noo-ruk has Aspergillus mold in it, like Sake.
Nuruk is primarily made up of barley and wheat malt, which form the bulk of the diastatic power that this insidious stuff provides. Any inclusion of aspergillus or other mold spores is strictly incidental and doesn't significantly add to the character of the resulting makgeolli made from it. I'll tell you what does contribute, however: lactobacillus and wild yeast! I've had makgeolli before, and I'll tell you that stuff is sour!

And tastes nothing like sake.
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Old 02-10-2009, 03:06 AM   #18
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there's aspergillus as a key ingredient in the starter-
it's needed to turn starches into sugars, then yeast uses sugars and turns into ethanol...

the process originates from china, where they domesticated soy beans as a way of nitrification of soils, as a food the process of cooking to produce soy milk was invented, as well as fermenting the mash with aspergillus mould, which is the process used to make soy sauce.-

the result would be a mash at the bottom, which is miso soup paste, as well as a fluid which would become soy sauce.
the longer it is left, the darker it becomes until black.

most chinese rice wines are made with a little soy bean crunched up into little bits and cooked first then added with GLUTINOUS RICE and a starter which contains aspergillus mould.-

i use these starters from a chinese food store near my house, which contains the
mould and yeast dried out in a little white ball.
they make this by some process involving leaves of a tree and cooking rice then drying it all out-

but it's not really a science, here's my recipe with the balls which all have different levels of ingredients:

1. soak glutinous rice for a few hours
2. steam rice
3. spread rice out on a clean bench, and sprinkle with yeast/mould in powder form
4. mix it all up a bit and add cooked soy beans which have been through a blender (%10)
5. put it all into a brewing vat, pat down then sprinkle a little yeast mix on top
6. leave to ferment for a month, then add sorbate and filter / bottle

let it age until light brown...

thats xiaoxing style rice wine, like a sake if you exclude the soy, but better taste with it, has a rich "soy sauce" glow-

yum

there are more "professional" recipes, but i just like to produce heaps of wine by trial and error and i get alot of crazy wines, many nice ones and all the yuck ones get distilled down and used for something else -

the left over mash if made with pure rice is very nice mixed with deserts, i mix it with custard and really like it, the wife hates it lol should have married a booze hag ha ha

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Old 02-10-2009, 03:32 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elvis
there's aspergillus as a key ingredient in the starter-
it's needed to turn starches into sugars, then yeast uses sugars and turns into ethanol...
Sometimes, yes. But aspergillus isn't the only microorganism that is capable of amylolysis, and out of all the commonly used forms that genus is actually one of the more dangerous ones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elvis
i use these starters from a chinese food store near my house, which contains the
mould and yeast dried out in a little white ball.
they make this by some process involving leaves of a tree and cooking rice then drying it all out-
Jiu men balls are usually a mixture of yeast, flour (rice or wheat), and molds from the rhizopus and mucor genus. There are other bacteria that make their way in there too, but those are the primary critters that are responsible for amylolysis in those jius.

The exception, of course, is the red starter, also called "red yeast rice" or "red koji." That stuff is 100% monascus purpureus, and actually quite hard to get hold of in the United States thanks to the FDA.
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Old 02-21-2011, 04:53 PM   #20
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Spotted this forum & thought I'd post this 'Rice whisky' recipe which I got from a book which my mum gave to me last year, called '500 Recipes Home-made Wines & Drinks' by Marguerite Patten', just in case it's of use to anyone. The recipe & ingredients are really simple (which is good as I'm a complete newcomer to wine-making!) - I've tried the recipe & it's currently in the process of maturing, but it seems to smell extremely potent so far! The book says it's apparently similar in taste, colour & potency to whisky.

Rice whisky recipe:
3 lbs carolina or short grain rice
1 lb raisins (chopped)
3 lbs sugar
Juice of 1 lemon (believe this equates to 2 tbsp)
8 pts warm water
1 oz yeast

Put rice/ raisins/ sugar/ lemon juice & water into large bowl. Add yeast (which should have been dissolved in a little warm water). Let mixture stand in warm place, covered with cloth, for 12 days, but stir occasionally for first 3 days. A scum will rise to top, but do not remove this until the last day. Filter into clean cask or stone jar. Store for 6 months in a cool place, then bottle.

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