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Old 09-05-2011, 01:05 PM   #1
Fletch78
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Default Persimmon Wine

I found Keller's recipe, and have a few questions.

I will probably end up with 4 gallons worth by the end of the season, minimum, and that's giving 90% of them to the wildlife.

My question is on the process. Am I better off just crushing and fermenting the fruit whole, or should I pulse and strain the juice instead?

Secondly, Keller recommends either Montrachet or P Cuvee. I know those are totally different yeasts, not really similar at all, so I'm curious why he'd say one or the other.

What would be the best yeast choice for a persimmon wine, final ABV between 11-12%, and aged for a year?

If you aren't familiar with persimmons, the are like a cross between plums and peaches, with a slight pumpkin flavor as well. So if you've made plum or peach wine, your advice for persimmon wine would be applicable here.


Any advice is appreciated. Thanks!

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Old 09-05-2011, 02:34 PM   #2
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No advice, but persimmons would be very interesting as a wine. I grew up with wild ones (which would only be good when they are VERY ripe). My wife grew up in Asia and loves Asian persimmons ... to the point that she has altered her skin color slightly during some seasons because of how many she has eaten. That's one that might me a few points if done right ... but I don't have time to fit it into the plans this year.

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Old 09-05-2011, 02:41 PM   #3
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A good rule of thumb on ripeness: Wait until it falls off the tree. If it bounces, it isn't ripe. If it splits, it's ripe.

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Old 09-05-2011, 03:22 PM   #4
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While I haven't done a whole lot of wines yet, the recipes from Jack's site I have used turned out well using the yeast he perscribed or the yeast he recommends from his yeast profile page. So for persimmons, he says D47 is ideal. I guess I'd say he had a reason for suggesting those other two (maybe the original recipe said to use those yeasts?)... if only those pesky woodland creatures didn't make off with so much of the fruit, you could do a little experiment! But if I were to have only one shot at a persimmon wine, I think I'd go with D47.

In any case, I hope you let us know how things turn out!

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Old 09-05-2011, 03:30 PM   #5
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Thanks... I remember reading about that one on GotMead, and I just checked out a bunch on Midwest's site, I also agree the D-47 sounds like the best bet. Thanks for the reassurance.

I didn't read that on Keller's recipe though, that's interesting. I re-read it, and it's actually adapted from some other recipe, it's not actually Jack's.

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Old 09-05-2011, 03:43 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch78 View Post
A good rule of thumb on ripeness: Wait until it falls off the tree. If it bounces, it isn't ripe. If it splits, it's ripe.
That works for American persimmons (the ones I grew up with) and the some varieties of Asian persimmons. But there are other varieties of Asian persimmons that are still firm when ripe, and aren't astringent at all. Those firm varieties are the ones we usually eat in our house these days since after discovering them, the soft ones have lost some of their appeal for me.
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Old 09-05-2011, 03:53 PM   #7
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That works for American persimmons (the ones I grew up with) and the some varieties of Asian persimmons. But there are other varieties of Asian persimmons that are still firm when ripe, and aren't astringent at all. Those firm varieties are the ones we usually eat in our house these days since after discovering them, the soft ones have lost some of their appeal for me.

I'm pretty sure mine are Asian, based on their small size. Some of them don't burst when they hit the ground, but I do a quick taste test on any questionable ones. So far, most of the firm ones fail the taste test.

This is the taste test:

Good:
Bad:

One musn't be a conesseur to know the difference. It is profound.

I had also considered experimenting with putting almost-ripe persimmons in a bag with a banana, to ripen them via the ethyl-something gas. However, at the rate they are dropping ripe, I don't need to do the experiment. This morning, I've already collected a half gallon, and there are still approximately 40,000 more on the tree.
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Old 09-05-2011, 04:05 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch78 View Post
This is the taste test:

Good:
Bad:

That's gotta be the best description of the taste difference on the astringent varieties that I've ever seen. You're right, there's no guessing about it. One can't mistake it if it isn't ripe.

FWIW, here is a comparison of one firm, nonastringent variety (Fuyu persimmons):

http://simplyrecipes.com/recipes/fuyu_persimmons/

With another soft-fruited and astringent type (Hachiya Persimmons):

http://blogs.kqed.org/bayareabites/2...ya-persimmons/

Another thing my wife likes to do with the Hachiya type is to freeze them, then thaw them just enough to let them get slushy, open the skin and eat the slushy fruit straight out of the skin.

I suspect that when making wine, the Hachiya persimmons would be better since they are soft and juicier when ripe. I've never made persimmon wine, but that's what I would think.
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Old 09-05-2011, 04:12 PM   #9
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Mine don't look much like either of those. Maybe I do have the American variety, and they are just dropping small because of heat and drought. This is my first year on this property. I'll get some pictures when the maid gets home.

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Old 09-05-2011, 04:18 PM   #10
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I didn't read that on Keller's recipe though, that's interesting. I re-read it, and it's actually adapted from some other recipe, it's not actually Jack's.
I know you said D47 is probably what you'll use, but just so you know where I read my info from: http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/strains.asp. And for those who don't feel like checking the sight out:

"Lalvin ICV-D47 (Côtes-du-Rhône) : This is a low-foaming quick fermenter that settles well and forms compact lees at the end of fermentation, although when left on the lees, ripe spicy aromas with tropical and citrus notes develop. This strain tolerates fermentation temperatures ranging from 50° to 86° F. and enhances mouth feel due to complex carbohydrates and high polysaccharide production. Malolactic fermentation proceeds well in wine made with ICV-D47. This strain is recommended for making wines from white varieties such as Chardonnay and for rosé style wines. It is ideal for persimmon, peach, nectarine, paw-paw, and mango, as well as aromatic wines such as rose petal, elderflower, anise and woodruff. It is also an excellent choice for producing mead if supplemented with yeast nutrients, especially usable nitrogen. Its alcohol ceiling is 14%."
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