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Old 03-10-2012, 02:03 PM   #9401
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No need to be pissy about it....there are nearly 1000 pages of posts in this thread and your particular questions have been asked and answered repeatedly. If you had read more than "SEVERAL" pages of posts or searched the thread, you would have easily found several answers to your questions.

That said, backsweetening should be done at (or near) the end of fermentation, hence the name (after a wine has fermented out completely dry, vintners will use additives or heat to kill the yeast and then add new sugars "back in" to sweeten it....this allows for variations in how dry a particular fermentation may be and allows for adjusting to taste).
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I've read every single post in this thread and while there were a couple discussions about back sweetening, there is not one that discusses adding non-fermentable sweeteners when assembling the recipe. I also asked about it and never received a response.
That was not my intention, just indicating the facts. I also found some discussion of back sweetening, but failed to find a definitive answer to add so much lactose, or so much Splenda at a certain time to achieve a level(s) of sweetness. I assume it could even be done by the bottle like bottle carbing rather than batch carbing. It may well be in here, but the sheer number of posts (even when using search) makes it a daunting task. This thread almost needs a locked sticky on procedures alone, in addition to Ed's excellent original post. IMHO.
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Old 03-10-2012, 03:52 PM   #9402
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I made my first batch without deviating from the original recipe. I put into primary on 1/16/12, and sampled on 2/28/12 and mine was still at 1.010 six weeks in. My basement is around 65 degrees most days, so maybe that is contributing to the slow finish. I do enjoy the level of sweetness at 1.010, but look forward to a dry finish when all is said and done.

I'm just amazed at how simple the process really is--I'm looking forward to sampling again in a couple of weeks.

Thanks EdWort!

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Old 03-10-2012, 04:32 PM   #9403
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So i just bottled this...and tried what i couldnt fit in the jugs, and damn this stuff is good!

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Old 03-10-2012, 08:29 PM   #9404
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That was not my intention, just indicating the facts. I also found some discussion of back sweetening, but failed to find a definitive answer to add so much lactose, or so much Splenda at a certain time to achieve a level(s) of sweetness. I assume it could even be done by the bottle like bottle carbing rather than batch carbing. It may well be in here, but the sheer number of posts (even when using search) makes it a daunting task. This thread almost needs a locked sticky on procedures alone, in addition to Ed's excellent original post. IMHO.
I think the reason people don't pre-backsweeten is the variability of yeast behavior. I believe even the same yeast used on two batches of the same recipe may finish a little higher or lower depending the batch of yeast, fermenting conditions, etc. Tastes vary, so too sweet for you might be the sweet spot for me (pun intended). When I back-sweetened, I drew off a 12 oz bottle, put a quarter packet of splenda in it, and tasted. I then did half a packet, and so on. Then I backsweetened per bottle, not in bulk. I went with 1/4 packet per 12 oz bottle, and 1/2 packet per 750 ml wine bottle. It had a funny aftertaste with any more than that, and maybe just a little taste with that much. I hope this helps.
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Old 03-11-2012, 04:17 AM   #9405
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. Then I backsweetened per bottle, not in bulk. I went with 1/4 packet per 12 oz bottle, and 1/2 packet per 750 ml wine bottle. It had a funny aftertaste with any more than that, and maybe just a little taste with that much. I hope this helps.
It did indeed. Hard to imagine a quarter packet in 12 ounces would even be able to be tasted. Thus your comment on to each his own. I guess the best approach will be to just try varying amounts by the bottle until one which suits the individual will be found.Think I may go with lactose for my first experimental batch. I would think six ounces for a five gallon batch might work. Think I will pour off a one gallon jug and add an ounce to it and let it age a bit and taste, etc. Good luck to all, it is fun isn't it!
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Old 03-11-2012, 04:45 AM   #9406
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The sweetness was fine with half a packet, but the artificial taste on the finish was too annoying. At a quarter packet it was barely perceptible (to my palate) but still took the edge of the dryness off.

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Old 03-11-2012, 06:23 AM   #9407
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Anyone try Truvia?

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Old 03-11-2012, 06:42 AM   #9408
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Alcoholic koolaid wooo hoooo! I just started 3 one-gallon batches as an experiment. 1) With corn sugar and Nottingham ale yeast. 2) With corn sugar and Montrachet yeast (Ed Wort's original recipe). And 3) With organic cane sugar and Montrachet yeast. Also using Martinelli's 100% pure apple juice... no additives whatsoever. I'll post in about a month the results. Have a feeling the Montrachet yeast will taste the best but it will be interesting to compare the different sugars.
Here are the early results after only 16 days (couldn't wait) which I observed right after the visual signs that the primary fermentation had ended (airlocks stopped bubbling for a few days).

1) Notty... not so good... I didn't get a F.G. reading, but the hazy, rubber-tire tasting overtones stood out as the most notorious characteristics for this one. Cloudy, pretty hot, and not so good drinking. If it were to be placed on a serious wine tasting scale it would probably be ranked fairly low, about a 4.9 I'd guess. I'd give it about a 7 on a hobo wine scale though. I have used Nottingham yeast for a Welch's Grape Juice wine that turned out great due to the fact that it has more body such as most beers that brew well with Notty. Apfelwein has no body but is pretty tasty apparently.

2) Montrachet yeast w/ corn sugar (Ed Wort's original recipe): Better flavor, but there is still an essence of rubber at this young age. F.G. at 1.002. Pretty dry with not-so-tasty-off-flavors. Hobo: 7.5

3) Montrachet with organic cane sugar (C&H): Surprisingly the best tasting of the 3 early trialsTart up front like the others but with a slight bit of body and a smoother/sweeter finishand with noticeably less off-flavors. It also had the same F.G. at 1.002. This was the only one tasted that seemed (almost) ready-to-drink and it was also less cloudy than the other two. Hobo score: 8.5
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Old 03-11-2012, 06:48 AM   #9409
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Here's the early results after only 16 days (couldn't wait) which was right after the visual signs that the primary fermentation had ended (airlocks stopped bubbling for a few days).

1) Notty... not so good... Rubber-tire tasting overtones on this one. Cloudy, pretty hot, and not so good drinking. If it were placed on a serious wine tasting scale it would be pretty poor, about a 4.9 probably. I'd give it about a 7 on a hobo wine scale though.

2) Montrachet yeast w/ corn sugar (Ed Wort's original recipe): Better flavor, but still there's an essence of rubber at this young age. F.G. at 1.002. Pretty dry with not-so-tasty-off-flavors. Hobo: 7.5

3) Montrachet with organic cane sugar (C&H): Surprisingly the best tasting of the 3 early trials Tart up front like the others but with a slight bit of body and a smoother/sweeter finish. Noticeably less off-flavors and the same F.G. 1.002. This was the only one I tasted that seemed (almost) ready-to-drink and it was noticeably less cloudy that the other two. Hobo score: 8.5
Cool preliminary! : mug: But I want to see 4 month taste testing!
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Old 03-11-2012, 12:19 PM   #9410
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I'm sipping on my first batch of apfelwein right now. It's clear and dry, with a touch of tartness, and damn good at only 40 days old. Looking forward to it getting even better. It tastes like a rather dry white wine, which is just fine.

An old fart with a low, fixed income, this wine is all I hoped it would be; it tastes good - much better than the sickly sweet boxed wines I had been trying - and is cheap to produce. The initial outlay for the 6-gal Better Bottle will pay for itself many times over, and may have already done so with just the one batch since my yield was five-and-a-half gallons (I could have poured more juice in, and will next batch).

I have a badly bulged disc in lower back and degeneration of discs in my neck. I use alcohol for pain control when it gets bad - which means I drink some alcohol three to four days a week - usually one or two glasses. A bit of snake-bite medicine helps alleviate that and other age-related pains - and helps me sleep like a baby. Not rationalization, just facts. Have been looking for an affordable drink that I can enjoy - this fills the bill better than I'd hoped.

The taste reminds me of a decent chablis. I let it ferment out and clear, and have a very tasty still, dry wine. Plus it's easy to make and not counting the BB cost only $4.90 per gallon. Starting my next batch this week. Thanks Mr. Ed.

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