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Old 02-05-2012, 01:36 PM   #11
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So your pitched yeast won't reproduce, and it'll just take forever to ferment?

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Old 02-05-2012, 01:59 PM   #12
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So your pitched yeast won't reproduce, and it'll just take forever to ferment?
No, it will only ferment a bit (maybe) and then stop. The first thing the yeast does is reproduce, and then begins fermentation. But if they can't reproduce, they can't really do much. The only way to overcome that is to pitch a HUGE quantity of yeast into it and hope that there is enough yeast to ferment it.

It's different if you'd try to use potassium sorbate to stop fermentation. That doesn't work because there are already hundreds of billions of yeast in there, as they've already reproduced a number of times, so the k-sorbate will not stop an active fermentation.
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Old 02-05-2012, 05:58 PM   #13
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You could try pitching a slurry from a previous fermentation or make a giant starter rather than just rehydrating the yeast.

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Old 02-05-2012, 07:44 PM   #14
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Thank you all

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Old 02-06-2012, 10:42 PM   #15
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No, it will only ferment a bit (maybe) and then stop. The first thing the yeast does is reproduce, and then begins fermentation. But if they can't reproduce, they can't really do much. The only way to overcome that is to pitch a HUGE quantity of yeast into it and hope that there is enough yeast to ferment it.
I don't agree. if you can get the yeast to take hold the preservatives become irrelevant and it will ferment out all the way, the yeast will even over come the preservative and start to reproduce. Preservatives are kind of like a wall around a city, and the yeast are kind of like an invasion force. Good in the short term or with a minimal attack but not good for long term or with a large invasion.

The reason I say this is when sorbate is used on a dry wine to back sweeten the number of yeast is so minimal that the "wall" can easily hold off the attack of the yeast. However with a larger inoculation those preservatives don't stand a chance. Skeeter pee calls for "real lemon" which has preservatives in it and there is a thread on this forum about fermenting mountain due which also has preservatives in it. In both cases a basic starter and time is all that was needed for the yeast to overcome the preservatives. You can take any juice with a preservative in it and leave it on the counter with the lid off and eventually it will start to mold. (potassium sorbate inhibits both yeast and mold from reproducing)

Really preservatives just slow things down. If they completely protected foods from yeast and mold we would not need to put food items with preservatives in them in the fridge after they have been opened. But because the preservatives can not hold off all the attacks of microbes every time the lid is removed we keep opened containers in the fridge so that the cold will slow down microbe growth. Even then with the preservatives and the cold if you leave something in the fridge to long it will begin to ferment or grow mold.

The other ingredient, Sodium Hexametaphosphate, is not a preservative, it is a dispersing agent, or deffloculating agent. It is used to help keep any solids in the liquid from clumping together and settling out in other words in the Hawaiian punch its job is to hold fruit solids in suspension. This could be problematic when it comes time to clear the wine as it will most likely keep the yeast is suspension even after the wine has fermented out dry. It is also found in soap, detergents, water treatment, metal finishing and plating, & toothpaste. And we put it in our food, yum!!! We are the smartest animals on eirth and yet we are the only ones dumb enough to intentionally add poisons to our food.
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Old 02-07-2012, 06:30 AM   #16
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We are the smartest animals on eirth and yet we are the only ones dumb enough to intentionally add poisons to our food.
Um. This forum is dedicated to alcohol making. A poison to be sure. But we have livers to handle all these poisons. For now.
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Old 02-07-2012, 01:55 PM   #17
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Also, soap, detergents, water and toothpaste are all things we have very near contact with. It's not like it's cyanide or anything!

That said, I think he might be right. On several occasions I have had sorbate not be effective and yeast continue to reproduce. But it will definitely be the cause of this particular fermentation not being successful and would be better off with a juice with not sorbate in it.

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Old 02-07-2012, 04:16 PM   #18
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Um. This forum is dedicated to alcohol making. A poison to be sure. But we have livers to handle all these poisons. For now.
At least with alcohol the process is natural, and yes alcohol being a "poison" in large quantities is a true statement, but that logic is flawed. To say that ingesting one thing that is not very good for you is OK because you are already ingesting another thing not good for you is like saying "I was exposed to asbestos as a child, so I don't need to where a respirator when I weld or paint" or "I have already eaten a big greasy pizza so I might as well eat a box of doughnuts" doesn't make any sense.

We live in a mechanized world and the the food we eat is full of all kinds of things that mother nature never intended to be in there. If it is processed it is full of them, if its not processed but still not organic there is still crap in our food. My comment was not that you should completely avoid food with preservatives in it at all cost, I eat store bout food some of which is processed, and most of which is not organic so I too am ingesting my far share of crap, for the sake of reduced cost and convenience. My point was that at least a preservative has a "needed" function to help keep food from spoiling, but we add chemicals like Sodium Hexametaphosphate to our food to eliminate a little sediment. Thats crazy to me, lets ingest more chemicals just for the sake of aesthetes??

I don't want this thread to get out of hand, my original comment, "We are the smartest animals on earth and yet we are the only ones dumb enough to intentionally add poisons to our food." was more out of amusement at the stupid things we as humans do, not to preach a sermon on the evils of additives in our food. I am not trying to convince anyone that they should eliminate all chemicals from there life and diet. You can do what ever you want. For me I avoid it when ever it is convenient. I use a lot of boiling water to sterilize my wine making equipment so that I can keep the sanitizers to a minimum and only use them on the things that can not handle the heat. I pasteurize rather than using campden tablets and sorbets.


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Also, soap, detergents, water and toothpaste are all things we have very near contact with. It's not like it's cyanide or anything!
agreed it is not some highly toxic chemical that is going to take you out with one sip. it is that these additives are in everything and we are being bombarded with them all the time. A little bit is not going to heart you but continual exposure of extended periods of time will have an effect.

What it really comes down to is my original reply to the OP's inquiry.

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here is a thought, the ingredient list tells you what is in it so try making it from various concentrates and real fruits.
APPLE
PINEAPPLE
PASSIONFRUIT
ORANGE
APRICOT
PAPAYA
GUAVA
Not only will the end result be better for you, it will most likely taste a ton better.
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