Electric Brewing Supply 30A BCS Giveaway!


Home Brew Forums > Wine, Mead, Cider, Sake & Soda > Wine Making Forum > Fermenting a wine with Belgian yeast
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 09-16-2012, 03:15 AM   #1
Weizenstein
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Kansas City, Kansas
Posts: 32
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default Fermenting a wine with Belgian yeast

So, I've got 150lbs of Chambourcin cold soaking right now divided into two 75lb batches. One is getting Lalvin D254, the other was going to get 71B, but the starter didn't take off. So now I'm thinking... I have a smack pack of Wyeast Farmhouse in the fridge that could be pretty awesome in a wine lending Fruity/peppery/earthy flavors? Or maybe pick up some French or Belgian Saison.

Does anyone do this? Is there any "chemical" reason that this could create horrible off flavors? If anyone can point me towards some good information on this that'd be awesome. If I go through with it I'll post back with some preliminary results.

cheers,
Jon

__________________
Weizenstein is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-18-2012, 08:18 PM   #2
Weizenstein
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Kansas City, Kansas
Posts: 32
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

Well, I went ahead and pitched Farmhouse on 20% of the grapes in a separate fermenter. Smells good so far

__________________
Weizenstein is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-19-2012, 01:25 AM   #3
jamesharder
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: kansas
Posts: 15
Likes Given: 1

Default

Keep us updated, i'm super interested in how this works out. The brewing network did a show a while ago where they talked about using wine yeast in beer. It would be neat to see how it goes the other way around.

__________________
jamesharder is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-19-2012, 01:33 AM   #4
Ezekielsays
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Moorhead, mn
Posts: 104
Liked 10 Times on 5 Posts
Likes Given: 3

Default

I'm also interested-something similar has been on my hope to do list for a while.

__________________

------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by Rcole
Our system isn't broken- we're allowing it to rust out.

Ezekielsays is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-19-2012, 10:52 AM   #5
WilliamSlayer
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
Posts: 1,340
Liked 118 Times on 112 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default

I have HEARD that because the yeast is not interacting with barley (its normal environment) that the phenols and esters that come out in beer are very muted or non-existent in other ferments. It's just second hand info, so i'd also love to hear your results!

__________________
WilliamSlayer is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-22-2012, 03:27 AM   #6
sashurlow
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: West Rutland, Vermont
Posts: 333
Liked 8 Times on 8 Posts

Default

I recently experimented with belgium yeast and cider. With identical sweet cider there is a very noticable difference between the Belgium yeast and English dry cider (which is usually called a "wine yeast"). Based on what I'm tasting, it doesn't support the barley theory very well. Woodchuck made a Belgium cider once (still?) and it tasted very unique. Depending on how many apples I get this fall, I might have to try another gallon of Belgium yeast with good apples (my first batch was mostly Mac and not good). Granted, I did not add sugar and kept it a cider instead of wine.

__________________
sashurlow is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-28-2012, 10:59 PM   #7
Weizenstein
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Kansas City, Kansas
Posts: 32
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

Update:

I've done cider and grape ferments with belgian yeast now, and I have a few observations, unfortunately I blended the belgian portion of my wine with the traditionally fermented stuff so I won't be able to taste it seperately as it ages. Next time. But notes from tasting before blending:

- Cider with French saison yeast definitely picks up phenolics/peppery character, not as much as in a beer, but definitely present.
- Red wine has a strong flavor and it can be difficult to seperate the yeast phenols from those present in the grapes themselves.
- Fruit, I definitely got some banana esters in the wine with belgian yeast, I could spell them during fermentation, though they aren't that present in the taste, more of a general fruitiness.
- The belgian yeast wine appeared to have good body and tasted smoother than the wine yeast ferments at pressing, before bulk aging. I think it could be a good yeast to use for nouveau wines.
- I started making a "second wine" with the belgian yeast cake/skins, but it got moldy :-( So sad.

I used Wyeast Farmhouse.

- Thoughts going forward:
- get an inexpensive wine kit, divide it into multiple fermenters and pitch different yeasts, taste results side by side for better calibration.
- Catawba/Niagra/Concord juice wine with belgian yeast?
- Kolsch Yeast in a white? That could be really good.

Cheers

__________________
Weizenstein is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-28-2012, 11:51 PM   #8
DoctorCAD
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Fayetteville, NC
Posts: 1,058
Liked 49 Times on 45 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Dont beer yeasts die from alcohol poisoning at a much lower ABV than wine yeasts?

__________________

Just because something CAN ferment, does not mean it SHOULD be fermented.

DoctorCAD is online now
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-29-2012, 09:54 AM   #9
WilliamSlayer
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
Posts: 1,340
Liked 118 Times on 112 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default

Weizen, thanks for the update! Its always good to get firsthand info about experiments like this. Sharing the info is a great way of giving back to this community of brewers!

Leads to another question that is related.

Did your beer yeasts ferment the ciders and grapes to dryness? Or, did it leave some residual sugars?

Also, the Kolsch yeast idea sounds intriguing to me. I am a Kolsch fan, and a German white wine fan!

__________________
WilliamSlayer is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-29-2012, 07:52 PM   #10
Weizenstein
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Kansas City, Kansas
Posts: 32
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

Doc - Different beer yeasts have different alcohol tolerances, but most will go up to 12-14% if given oxygen and nutrients. If you can ferment a quad with it you can make wine with it.
My wine's alcohol level should be around 12-13%

Will - No problem, collaboration is what the beer community is all about.

Both the cider and wine fermented to dryness. There aren't any complex sugars in Cider, and not many in wine, so this wasn't a surprise to me. What was surprising was the body of the resulting cider, I think the saison yeast produces a good amount of glycerin/glycerol along with the peppery characteristics, it's certainly worth exploring some more.

I think the Kolsch-wine or cider idea could be a winner, that "spritzy" ester character wyeast Kolsch gives off could add something to an otherwise lackluster neutral wine. In a german white it would be interesting to see how it interacts with the Gewurtztraminer or Reisling aromatics.

There's a whole world of experimentation to do out there, and a lot of "wine guys" are too intimidated to try it. I asked a young local pro winemaker about using belgian yeast and he was adamant that it would invite a brett infection, because belgian ales have brett in them. Most wine guys don't know jack about beer. And a lot of them don't know much about science either, hence the whole "biodynamic" movement. Not to knock all wine people, I just mean to say that Brewing encourages a much more experimental mindset than winemaking.

__________________
Weizenstein is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fermenting wine and THEN pressing it? Revvy Wine Making Forum 2 12-08-2010 04:00 PM
Why not cap fermenting wine to get sparkling? Brewkowski Wine Making Forum 5 12-09-2009 12:48 AM
Kit wine, fermenting time Orfy Wine Making Forum 8 01-15-2007 06:47 PM
first wine is fermenting sconnie Wine Making Forum 8 08-31-2006 11:17 PM
Boiling wine right after fermenting? makingitgood Wine Making Forum 11 05-20-2006 04:17 PM