Electric Brewing Supply 30A BCS Giveaway!


Home Brew Forums > Wine, Mead, Cider, Sake & Soda > Wine Making Forum > Fast Banana Wine
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 06-16-2013, 06:50 PM   #11
Leadgolem
Drunken Monkey
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
Leadgolem's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 3,716
Liked 964 Times on 738 Posts
Likes Given: 1763

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by saramc View Post
What is the SG at for the portion you plan on bottling soon? Will be interesting to see how the solids come into play with this in the bottle, since you are experimenting after all. We did learn we love our rice solids, didn't we? You should try this blended with some of your rice wine.
1.030, that's very sweet but I think it suites the bananas well.

I had considered blending with some rice wine, but I'm thinking you would have to use a fairly small proportion of banana wine to rice wine. Otherwise you are likely to overpower the subtleties of the rice wine. It might blend better with red rice wine, given that red rice wine has a stronger fruity flavor to it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wooda2008 View Post
I very much want to drink a turbid wine, thank you kindly. Appearance is the result of a process, not the driver. Form as a result of function.

Your premise may be based on a faulty assumption.
The rice (in this case banana) "solids" are in suspension. Like pectin or other nonfermentable micro's. It's not like the OP is stirring in banana puree before bottling, these are leftovers from the fermentation process.

You don't filter a deep red to 1micron, because it strips the flavor. Same deal here, but with bigger particles. It's part of the style that Gollem is trying to hit.
I'm glad somebody go it. Cloudy brew isn't necessarily bad brew. The suspended solids can bring a lot of flavor to the party.

Here is a picture of the banana wine alongside a bottle of really good red rice wine. I've found, with rice wine, that getting the proportion of solids to liquid in the wine is actually very important to the quality of the wine. The eyeball methods says these should be pretty close to the same, though the desirable proportion is currently unknown for the banana wine.

I expected this batch to take another 2-3 weeks at the least, so I only had one empty wine bottle. I'll be using that as my "witness" bottle, so I can see how the appearance changes. The rest is bottled in 22 oz amber crown cap bottles.
dsc_0003.jpg  
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remmy
I'd rather work with yeast than work with people.
Leadgolem is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-17-2013, 03:14 PM   #12
Johnnyhitch1
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 31 reviews
 
Johnnyhitch1's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: SiX-ThReE-OnE, NY
Posts: 2,050
Liked 222 Times on 186 Posts
Likes Given: 3366

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leadgolem View Post
I have made rice wine a few times. In actuality the rice does contributes to the mouth feel, flavor, and aroma of the wine very directly. Both in straight up rice wine, and red rice wine. The suspended rice particles represent partially saccharified starch. IE: Things that taste sweet, but are not fermentable in there present state.
I mentioned "solids" as in large material like half-inch sized banana pieces. This i assume we can agree on not being so "beneficial" to taste, specially on your next statement you point out removing them...

Quote:
I am not making banana liqueur. In rice wine you do, in fact, stir solids back in very deliberately. Whether this approach proves desirable with bananas remains to be seen.
You say your not making rice wine but make refrence to it as though its the correct approach for banana wine. You also stir in solids with rice wine during fermentation to ensure a proper surface cover of all available starch to yeast correct? So in what way does this relate to rice wine where also 100% of your fermentable sugars are coming from plain cane sugar and not converted starchs??
All im trying to say is, solids are not a desirable trait to any beer/wine and IMO will only cause off flavors as time goes on, on the other hand not worrying about clarity/haze is a completly differnt story.


Quote:
I'm racking into my bottling bucket as I type this. Here is how things look with the floating banana solids removed.
^^

Quote:
Originally Posted by wooda2008 View Post
I very much want to drink a turbid wine, thank you kindly. Appearance is the result of a process, not the driver. Form as a result of function.
Im sorry but this is ignorant. You might like to drink it but the secound you pour a glass for someone else and it comes out like chunky milk, im sure youll have a hard time dealing with them politely turning it down regardless how amazing it smelt/tasted.

Quote:
Your premise may be based on a faulty assumption.
The rice (in this case banana) "solids" are in suspension. Like pectin or other nonfermentable micro's. It's not like the OP is stirring in banana puree before bottling, these are leftovers from the fermentation process.
Like i stated above i meant "solids" as in LARGE chunks of banana, if this an arguement over pectin haze then i must have stating my wording wrong.

Quote:
You don't filter a deep red to 1micron, because it strips the flavor. Same deal here, but with bigger particles. It's part of the style that Gollem is trying to hit.
Ahh yes this confirms were talking about "particles" not "solids"


Carry on!! Misunderstanding...
__________________
^~~ "Like" it, Ill Give you beer ~~^
(({Brewing for the Movement Within}))

Primary: Kicking Cans DIPA, ECY20 Golden sour.
Kegged: Conan the Brown, OBS (Oatmeal brett stout)
Aging: Flanders Red w/ ECY02, All out Brett.
BOTTLES:

Cider: Grapfelwine, Apfelwine, Cranfelwine, Applejack
Beer: NZ Brett (BD:9/16/12)
Mead: Blueberry-lemon, Raspberry-Lime, Habenero, POM, Traditional.
Cellar: Maple Whiskey Barrel Stout, ST Pumking Clone
Johnnyhitch1 is online now
wooda2008 Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-17-2013, 06:28 PM   #13
Leadgolem
Drunken Monkey
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
Leadgolem's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 3,716
Liked 964 Times on 738 Posts
Likes Given: 1763

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnyhitch1 View Post
I mentioned "solids" as in large material like half-inch sized banana pieces. This i assume we can agree on not being so "beneficial" to taste, specially on your next statement you point out removing them...
Ah, that would make more sense then. In my mind turbid just means hazy, not floating chunks. I was talking about leaving some particulate matter in the bottles to be stirred back into suspension.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnyhitch1 View Post
You say your not making rice wine but make refrence to it as though its the correct approach for banana wine.
I said I was not making banana liqueur. I am using some of the things I learned making rice wine in making this banana wine. Whether or not this approach is appropriate to bananas is currently unknown.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnyhitch1 View Post
You also stir in solids with rice wine during fermentation to ensure a proper surface cover of all available starch to yeast correct?
It depends on the style of rice wine. With sake, yes. With many other kinds of rice wine, no. However, many kinds of rice wine do have particulate matter in the bottle that is supposed to be stirred back in before serving. In fact, I believe the majority of them do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnyhitch1 View Post
So in what way does this relate to rice wine where also 100% of your fermentable sugars are coming from plain cane sugar and not converted starchs??
This question is rather confusing. I believe you wish to know why I would use a rice wine approach in leaving suspended particles in the wine for banana wine, when the fermentables are entirely different? If that is the case, then the answer is that I'm looking for a high banana flavor index from a moderate fruit addition. My experience making rice wine presented suspended particulates as a possible source of those flavor compounds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnyhitch1 View Post
All im trying to say is, solids are not a desirable trait to any beer/wine and IMO will only cause off flavors as time goes on, on the other hand not worrying about clarity/haze is a completly differnt story.
We will have to see what changes time makes with the banana particulates left in the bottle. I believe I was able to deactivate the oxidizing enzyme in the bananas with the acid solution, otherwise I think the wine would have darkened considerably already. When I pasteurized this wine it was brought up to 160f for 10 minutes. That should kill off the yeast rather efficiently, and deactivate many of the enzymes present.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnyhitch1 View Post
...Carry on!! Misunderstanding...
Yup. I don't think anyone has any desire to drink sludge.

As always, have nice day.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remmy
I'd rather work with yeast than work with people.
Leadgolem is offline
Johnnyhitch1 Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-21-2013, 02:35 AM   #14
TheDemonSlick
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Boston, Ma
Posts: 127
Liked 41 Times on 29 Posts
Likes Given: 29

Default

I'll drink the 4ell out of that cloudy $hit. Looks awesome. I've been wanting to play around with a bananna based booze.

__________________

Adventures in Ancient Asian Amylase producing Molds... Beni Koji, or Red Yeast Rice (Monascus Purpureas): http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/beni...school-400098/
Using Chinese Winecakes or yeast cakes (Aspergillus Oryzae?) Sonofgroks thread: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f25/maki...ferent-361095/

TheDemonSlick is offline
Leadgolem Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-23-2013, 05:31 AM   #15
Leadgolem
Drunken Monkey
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
Leadgolem's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 3,716
Liked 964 Times on 738 Posts
Likes Given: 1763

Default

I meant to do this yesterday, but I'm remodeling my bathroom and it slipped my mind. Here is a picture of the banana wine I left to ferment dry. It's now at 0.992. I'm going to call that FG, if it goes much lower I won't be able to read it at all. The actual gravity of this batch was 1.105, so it's hit 15.1% abv.

Surprising, it's still got a good amount of banana flavor. Excellent mouth feel. Really, just the right viscosity. It's thick enough to allow your taste buds to register the flavor compounds, but not in the least bit sludgy. It is also interesting in that it doesn't taste like a dry wine. With a gravity that low I rather doubt it contains any sugar at this point. It tastes very much like it does though. It reminds you so strongly of something sweet that, even though it isn't, your mind tells you it is anyway.

At this point it's also clearly far to young. The alcohol flavor is still very strong. Though, oddly, the aroma is of bananas with just the barest hint of alcohol. I will be very interested in how this ages. It's pleasant now, I wonder how it will be in a few months.

dsc_0003.jpg  
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remmy
I'd rather work with yeast than work with people.
Leadgolem is offline
wooda2008 Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-24-2013, 04:27 AM   #16
Leadgolem
Drunken Monkey
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
Leadgolem's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 3,716
Liked 964 Times on 738 Posts
Likes Given: 1763

Default

I went ahead and bottled the dry banana wine. I don't have a bottling bucket that is the right size for these two gallon fermenting buckets, so it was funnel and pour from the bucket. When I was doing that, I was getting far to much trub in the bottles. So, I ran the whole thing through coffee filters. The attached picture is an example. There was a reduction in the flavor, and a change in mouth feel. The result is a wine that is a bit thin for my tastes, though still in acceptable ranges. Still pleasantly banana flavored, but the aroma also dropped somewhat.

On balance, I'd say filtering was better then the amount of trub loss I was looking at. In a larger batch I wouldn't though. I would rack and use a bottling bucket that's the right size.

Before filtering I pulled 2 quarts and have that in a bottle with about 1/8th of an ounce of light toast oak chips. I don't have a scale that is accurate in that weight range, so I had to estimate based on subdividing the volume of the 4 oz package.

bananawinedry-filtered.jpg  
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remmy
I'd rather work with yeast than work with people.
Leadgolem is offline
TheDemonSlick Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-25-2013, 05:46 PM   #17
TheDemonSlick
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Boston, Ma
Posts: 127
Liked 41 Times on 29 Posts
Likes Given: 29

Default

Looks awesome. I save money on oak chips by buying white oak "pen blanks" on ebay, about ten bucks a dozen, the screwdrivers just for scale. You can toast them in the oven or char them on your grill.

20130625_134232.jpg  
__________________

Adventures in Ancient Asian Amylase producing Molds... Beni Koji, or Red Yeast Rice (Monascus Purpureas): http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/beni...school-400098/
Using Chinese Winecakes or yeast cakes (Aspergillus Oryzae?) Sonofgroks thread: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f25/maki...ferent-361095/

TheDemonSlick is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-26-2013, 06:06 AM   #18
Leadgolem
Drunken Monkey
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
Leadgolem's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 3,716
Liked 964 Times on 738 Posts
Likes Given: 1763

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDemonSlick View Post
Looks awesome. I save money on oak chips by buying white oak "pen blanks" on ebay, about ten bucks a dozen, the screwdrivers just for scale. You can toast them in the oven or char them on your grill.
That's a good idea. It wouldn't exactly be a lot of work to cut them into blocks.

I've actually been kicking around with the idea of using other kinds of toasted wood in secondary. There is a fair selection of wood chips designed to go into a smoker I could try...
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remmy
I'd rather work with yeast than work with people.
Leadgolem is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-28-2013, 11:54 PM   #19
Jacob_Marley
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Detroit
Posts: 995
Liked 173 Times on 138 Posts
Likes Given: 65

Default

Make sure yer prepared to use the lees from the primary from your banana wine to use for a batch of Skeeter Pee. Ahhhh, it's summer.
(Lon's original recipe uses the lees from a different batch of wine to supply the yeast colony for the lemon wine. Banana works great.)

__________________
Jacob_Marley is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-29-2013, 01:59 AM   #20
Leadgolem
Drunken Monkey
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
Leadgolem's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 3,716
Liked 964 Times on 738 Posts
Likes Given: 1763

Default

I wouldn't use the actual lees from this recipe. There is a fair amount of glop in the bottom from the bananas. Under that there is a very clear layer of yeast I did harvest.

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remmy
I'd rather work with yeast than work with people.
Leadgolem is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Banana Wine Yooper Wine 618 10-17-2014 01:02 AM
First time wine brewer-banana wine? Ky-Ale Wine Making Forum 7 03-18-2014 12:07 AM
banana wine goteamwhatever Wine Making Forum 17 02-18-2013 04:00 PM
banana wine ABV is at 7.88% Hollie Wine Making Forum 7 10-16-2012 04:41 AM
Banana wine Wade E Wine 0 12-09-2009 03:15 AM