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Old 08-03-2010, 12:34 AM   #1
n2everythg
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Default Elderberry wine Grunge

I did a search of the forum and couldnt find an answer.

Question for all you experienced brewers. I'm new to this thing but having fun.

I am working on some elderberry wine. currently fermenting in primary for last 4 day.
Initial recipe was:
15 lbs of cleaned ripe elderberries
water to 6 gal = 3.25 gal water
Sugar to 1.098 sg
acid blend to .525 TA
campdon, nutrient, pectic enz, mont. yeast - yada yada.

My question is this. Fermenting nicely in the primary. But I have this thick green/brown sticky slime layer in the primary. It mostly seems to float until I stir it. It sticks to the plastic spoon and I cant get it off any way I have been able to figure out. It is all over the inside of the food grade bucket of my primary.

What the heck is this stuff and how do I remove it from my equipment?
I havnt taken a second SG reading yet but it is a lot less sweet and fermenting like crazy. Dont think there is any issues with my ferment. But what is the byproduct? stems I missed? How do I remove? Think it will settle out before I move to secondary?

Anybody else run into this when making elderberry wine?
thanks in advance
N2

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Old 08-03-2010, 01:56 PM   #2
alesucker
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not much experience here, but just guessing, i'd say it's pectin.

how much enzyme did you use?

if it's pectin, and you used enough enzyme, it should go away and clear over the next few weeks.

i've also read that elderberries contribute a lot of tannin. this may make your wine a bit "rough". lots of folks use other berries with elderberries to make a more balanced final product.

hopefully somebody with more experience will correct any errors in my suggestions! ;-)

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Old 08-03-2010, 03:02 PM   #3
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Default pectic Enz

I used 1/4 tsp of the liquid pectic enz that was fresh.
Bottle said that was enough for 5 gal of mash.

sound about right?

If I had to put a descriptor on the grunge I would say it is like light brown or tan 'tar'. Sound like pectin?

on the elderberry recipe..... I just followed a recipe I found on a wine making site. hope it works.

running out to the store to get the apple juice for the Apfervine or what ever it is called.... gonna mix up a batch of that next.

YEE HA.

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Old 08-03-2010, 09:03 PM   #4
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maybe it is the less fermentable solids, waxes, skin pigments, etc. that will eventually drop once the yeast eats all the easy sugars and the gravity drops.

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Old 08-05-2010, 04:36 AM   #6
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was reading the following on a website today and thought of you and your question.

Pectin haze. Test for pectin haze by adding four parts of methylated spirit to one part of wine, mixing and leaving for thirty minutes. The formation of clots, strings or jelly indicates pectin in the wine. Remedy: Add a liquid pectic enzyme, 1/2 fl oz per gallon (40 ml, per 4.5 litres) and leave until clear. Siphon off the sediment if necessary.

Lactic acid bacteria infection. This produces a thick, slimy or oily appearance. Remedy: Add two Campden tablets per gallon (4.5 litres), vigorously beat the wine with a spoon in a bucket and filter.

note the instructions on the pectic enzyme are per GALLON, not per batch.

OR

what you describe possibly sounds similar to the lactic acid infection described in which case you might be hosed.

give it some time and check your pectic enzyme instructions again to make sure you used the correct amount.

with all due respect to yooperbrew who is a moderator, i would humbly suggest that i have never had a large amount of floating yeast or kreusen type material when using montrachet red wine yeast, so to me, that doesn't sound likely. of course, my experience is limited. ;-)

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Old 08-11-2010, 11:34 PM   #7
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Default wine grunge

Well the wine tastes great already even tho it has not aged at all. Went into the secondary on 8/05. I had 5 gal in secondary and 1/2 gal extra plus a couple of bottles. I drank the bottles straight up and will keep the 1/2 gal for top up.

Fermentation is almost complete. still bubbling a little.

I ran a second batch of mash off the original yeast cake and fruit. Added a few cups of raisins and some sugar water to 1.1. That second batch just went into the secondary. So.....

Now it is time to clean out the plastic pail.
No idea how to get this green gum off the pail. might be a toasted out pail .

I will try to post pictures of the gum.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s...g/DSC01254.jpg

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s...g/DSC01252.jpg

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s...g/DSC01255.jpg

If anyone has any ideas what this is or how to remove it pls let me know.
thanks in advance
N2

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Old 09-09-2010, 11:03 PM   #8
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I also have this problem. At first I thought something was dissolving my plastic spoon. After I stirred my elderberry wine for 2 minutes it was immediately covered with the stuff. It seriously looks like it attacks the plastic. I did put a tsp of pectic enzyme in there for the one gallon batch. But this is my first elderberry and it is doing the same thing you are describing.

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Old 09-10-2010, 01:37 PM   #9
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I made Elderberry wine last year and had the same thing. as I remember...I think the only thing that will cut it up is vegetable oil. If not Jack Keller has the remedy on his blog

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Old 09-13-2010, 11:59 PM   #10
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thanks a ton for the point in the right direction.
I found some info on it here
http://www.oatmealjack.com/Elderberr...rriesWine.html

for anyone else with this issue:
determined that simple vegetable oil will dissolve the grunge, and then the vegetable oil can we washed off with dish soap to clean the primary. We used vegetable oil to clean the green elderberry gunk from our primary and can testify that it works very well.

I'm going to go try it tonight!... yea my primary has been dirty for a month...
later
N2

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