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Old 04-23-2013, 11:46 PM   #1
JasontheBeaver
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Default Concentrating fresh fruit juice

Searched all over for info on this and couldn't find anything except in the eisbock threads.
I'm wanting to concentrate fresh fruit juices.
So, what is the best way to remove water from juice?
1) simmer/boil it? I don't think so. Would probably change the characteristic and flavor adversly.
2) freeze it in plastic milk jugs, then turn upside down over a funnel and let thaw and drain into collection container, monitoring SG until you get to where you want? Sounds good but would like to hear from someone who has tried this method.
3) put juice in bucket and place it in the freezer, then periodically skim ice crystals from surface (or strain ice crystals)? Meh, not sure about this one either.
4) put in corny keg and freeze until 'slushy' then force liquid out to another keg via jumper tube?

My wines and ciders just don't have enough of the original fruit flavor. Kinda like how grape wines taste very little like grapes. Well I want my blackberry wine to taste like blackberries dammit! And my apple ciders to really taste like apples!

Any ideas from the experienced?

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Old 04-23-2013, 11:51 PM   #2
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Simmer to about half the amount and that removes the water. I do it all the time.

For apple use frozen cans of apple juice.

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Old 04-23-2013, 11:58 PM   #3
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Simmer to about half the amount and that removes the water. I do it all the time.
For apple use frozen cans of apple juice.
So cooking the juice doesn't alter the flavor?
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Old 04-23-2013, 11:59 PM   #4
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No, not at all.

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Old 04-24-2013, 12:46 AM   #5
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Curiosity asks what have you been doing? I like to try to use 100% fruit juice, with something like blackberries that gives a lot of acid that needs backsweetening but we know that from the start. You can also add more fruit after the gravity has dropped to where you are almost ready to transfer to your secondary, throw in some fruit and let it steep for a few days. For your cider go to the cider section and ask about apple jack, that seems to be what you are looking for?

Another flavor booster for berries is to add a few pounds of frozen strawberries just before transferring for a couple of days, works with all berries as far as I can tell, to give it more nose and enhance the flavor.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasontheBeaver View Post
Searched all over for info on this and couldn't find anything except in the eisbock threads.
I'm wanting to concentrate fresh fruit juices.
So, what is the best way to remove water from juice?
1) simmer/boil it? I don't think so. Would probably change the characteristic and flavor adversly.
2) freeze it in plastic milk jugs, then turn upside down over a funnel and let thaw and drain into collection container, monitoring SG until you get to where you want? Sounds good but would like to hear from someone who has tried this method.
3) put juice in bucket and place it in the freezer, then periodically skim ice crystals from surface (or strain ice crystals)? Meh, not sure about this one either.
4) put in corny keg and freeze until 'slushy' then force liquid out to another keg via jumper tube?

My wines and ciders just don't have enough of the original fruit flavor. Kinda like how grape wines taste very little like grapes. Well I want my blackberry wine to taste like blackberries dammit! And my apple ciders to really taste like apples!

Any ideas from the experienced?
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Old 04-24-2013, 01:28 AM   #6
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What keeps the yeast from just munching away on the sugar you just added, and the water in the fruit from diluting it even more?
Back sweetening just adds sugar, not flavor.

I'm envisioning centrating the initial juice so I'm closer to my target OG and having to add less sugar.

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Old 04-24-2013, 01:47 AM   #7
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Quote:
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So cooking the juice doesn't alter the flavor?
Yes, it does, significantly.

Think of the difference between a fresh crisp apple, and the apple flavor in jelly or apple pie. Or a fresh blueberry vs a canned blueberry. It's a huge difference.

I only used a heated juice once that had ok results. A friend got one of those steam extractor juicers, and so he gave me 3 gallons of chokecherry juice. I made mine the traditional way but made both batches. The one made from chokecherries was so much better, without a "cooked fruit" taste. His was "ok". I didn't taste cooked too much, but rather like jam with a fruit forward taste. It wasn't as bad as cooked apples would be. It was also bland and without depth.
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Old 04-24-2013, 01:50 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by JasontheBeaver View Post
What keeps the yeast from just munching away on the sugar you just added, and the water in the fruit from diluting it even more?
Back sweetening just adds sugar, not flavor.

I'm envisioning centrating the initial juice so I'm closer to my target OG and having to add less sugar.
I gotcha. Here's the thing, though- some fruits are so blasted acidic that you don't want to use 100% juice of them! Like, for example, raspberries. They make a great wine. But if you used 100% raspberry juice, even with added sugar to hit a reasonable OG, it would be so acidic that you wouldn't be able to drink it.

Only wine grapes have enough natural sugar to make wine without boosting the brix with sugar. They still need some acid adjustments, but not as much as wild fruits like raspberries, blackberries, apples, etc.

If you want more fruit flavor, you could certainly use more fruit. (Not juice- the actual fruit). But keep in mind the acid that might overtake all the other flavors.
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Old 04-24-2013, 01:51 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasontheBeaver
Searched all over for info on this and couldn't find anything except in the eisbock threads.
I'm wanting to concentrate fresh fruit juices.
So, what is the best way to remove water from juice?
1) simmer/boil it? I don't think so. Would probably change the characteristic and flavor adversly.
2) freeze it in plastic milk jugs, then turn upside down over a funnel and let thaw and drain into collection container, monitoring SG until you get to where you want? Sounds good but would like to hear from someone who has tried this method.
3) put juice in bucket and place it in the freezer, then periodically skim ice crystals from surface (or strain ice crystals)? Meh, not sure about this one either.
4) put in corny keg and freeze until 'slushy' then force liquid out to another keg via jumper tube?

My wines and ciders just don't have enough of the original fruit flavor. Kinda like how grape wines taste very little like grapes. Well I want my blackberry wine to taste like blackberries dammit! And my apple ciders to really taste like apples!

Any ideas from the experienced?
Here is what I do for fruit wines (ie strawberry, blueberry). Ferment your wine dry and let clear. Stabilize with kmeta and sorbate. You can then use juice or juice concentrate to backsweeten and flavor the wine with fruit flavor.

My blueberry wine turned our great this way, great blueberry flavor!
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Old 04-24-2013, 12:20 PM   #10
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Ditto! I backsweeten only usung frozen 100%fruit juice concentrates. Just one can in a five galleon batch can make a huge difference. Going from bone dry to even a small amount of sweetness really brings out the fruit flavore. If I don't have a juice that matches, I use whatever is close. The original fruit flavor cames back. If you add several cans you do start to change the flavor.
I have been told aging will bring back the fruit flavor. I have yet to try that method!!!

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