Can I safely skip the oxiclean stage?

Hi guys!

I am new to wine making but have been researching like crazy for months now.

I have received a batch of quite clean bottles (washed in the dishwasher, I do know that), brand new gallon carboys (brand new/un-used), and all the required equipment needed for my first gallon of apple wine (all cleaned by previous owner).

Yet I cannot seem to find oxiclean in any of my local stores. I've been to every last one. This is something I will have to order in.

My question is, can I safely "skip" this step? Forgive me if I am wrong by oxiclean is used for the stage of cleaning when your carboys contain residue/sticky dried wine/etc??

Since my carboys/bottles/equipment are in clean condition (but requiring sterilization of course) and move on directly to the sanitizing/sterilizing with crushed campden solution now? Or am I committing the more heinous act imaginable by doing so?

You tell me, I'm the newbie. Thanks so much for your help!

You need One Step or equal, not oxyclean.

Yes. You are fine to skip it. I only use Oxyclean when I have to remove labels, or they've come from the recycling center (and god knows where they have been, what they have contained)

Oxiclean is overrated.

The active ingredient is Sodium Percarbonate, the rest is usually Sodium Carbonate (commonly known as washing soda, or soda ash). Yes, the oxygen released by the percarbonate has its merits in cleaning and bleaching, and after the oxygen splits off there's more sodium carbonate leftover. Sodium Carbonate is a great cleaner. Your mother or grandmother used it in her laundry. It's also a major component in laundry detergent. You can but big boxes of it (3-4 pounds usually) for $4 or less.

Sodium percarbonate is 70% of what makes PBW, most of the remaining 30% being sodium metasilicate, another wonderful heavy duty cleaner and degreaser. PBW is a wonderful cleaner, and you can compound a close clone on your own from those 2 ingredients. The hotter the PBW solution the more active it is. Just beware most plastics don't like very hot water, and glass carboys can fracture from thermal stress, so luke warm is about the limit for those.

To remove labels I soak a few days in laundry detergent or washing soda, followed by a stiff brush inside and out. Rinse well, and sanitize.

Only speaking for myself but my rule of thumb is to clean after I use any piece of equipment and wash and sanitize before I use it. The fact that the carboys are new does not mean that they do not contain any contaminants from the manufacturer. Same goes for used bottles that appear to be clean. The last thing you want is to discover after you have bottled a finely made wine that there was indeed soap or some film or clump of microbial matter inside the bottle. Cost/benefit "analysis" would suggest that the bother of a quick clean (you cannot sanitize equipment that is not clean) is far less costly than the cost of tossing out spoiled wine.. can you skip the cleaning? Sure. Should you? That is another story.

Thank you to everyone who posted a reply.

I'm a bit confused at this point because the instructions vary from book to book & from forum to forum. I just want to be meticulous in my cleaning habits and I want to solidify good habits from the get-go.

I am terribly risk averse :-\ So I am stressing the little details at this point ;-)

IslandLizard - thank you for breaking down the constituent parts of oxiclean. I really dislike being a slave to a brand when I can essentially find the same ingredients locally anyhow. I live in Canada and the shipping prices are insane for anything heavier than a paperback novel!

Btw I just want to say I already hate these stuck on labels that act like they've been super glued on! feels like overkill!

DoctorCAD, what is One step? Never heard of this product before.

bernardsmith, you are right. I am not sure what I was thinking that buying new from my homebrew store was enough (or to rely on campden solution alone).

But just to clarify: there is the general cleaning stage, then there is the sterilizing stage? And then I'm off to the races?

Thanks for the help everyone!

bernardsmith said:

Only speaking for myself but my rule of thumb is to clean after I use any piece of equipment and wash and sanitize before I use it. The fact that the carboys are new does not mean that they do not contain any contaminants from the manufacturer. Same goes for used bottles that appear to be clean. The last thing you want is to discover after you have bottled a finely made wine that there was indeed soap or some film or clump of microbial matter inside the bottle. Cost/benefit "analysis" would suggest that the bother of a quick clean (you cannot sanitize equipment that is not clean) is far less costly than the cost of tossing out spoiled wine.. can you skip the cleaning? Sure. Should you? That is another story.

Click to expand...

calmingapple said:

But just to clarify: there is the general cleaning stage, then there is the sterilizing stage? And then I'm off to the races?

Thanks for the help everyone!

Click to expand...

Yes, there are two steps. Cleaning, and then sanitizing (not sterilizing).

First, if something is clean, it is clean. You can rinse something, to make sure it's free of dust, but if it's clean, it is clean. No need to clean something that is already clean.

If something is not clean, it cannot be sanitized. So if it's dirty, clean first, rinse, then sanitize. If something is cleaned, it can be sanitized.

Using a food safe sanitizer is crucial. You have several commercial choices- One Step, Iodophor, Star-san, and even powdered potassium metabisulfite (available in winemaking shops). Everything that touches the wine must be sanitized before using- bungs, airlocks, siphon equipment, bottles, tubing, hydrometers, carboys, etc. In a pinch, a diluted bleach solution can be used but it must be completely rinsed in order to avoid off-flavors in the wine, so it's generally not used as there are other and better no-rinse sanitizers available.

Can you not get Oxiclean in Save-On Foods or Superstore? I thought I had seen it there... (in Langley).

Save-On Foods does carry some wine/beer making items - it is where I bought my equipment kit and several Coopers kits to get me started last summer It goes on sale every month or so.
They carry the pink stuff called Sani Brew.. I think it is supposed to be a cleaner.

Good luck with your first adventures

If you have Walmart in your part of the Great White North, look for Sun Oxygen Cleaner. It's a percarbonate cleaner like oxiclean... A bit cheaper but same active ingredient. I mix Sun with TSP-90 (70%-30%) for my DIY PBW.

One Step is a cleaner that claims to need no rinsing, but I always rinse. Not too fond of soap in my finished product.

As others have stated, oxyclean is for really scummy bottles or label removal, not for cleaning/sanitizing.

Hey there and thanks for the suggestion. I had the bf check Save-On-Foods here where I live. He said no luck. But perhaps it is worth a more thorough look (with my own eyes hehe).

sixt3 said:

Can you not get Oxiclean in Save-On Foods or Superstore? I thought I had seen it there... (in Langley).

Save-On Foods does carry some wine/beer making items - it is where I bought my equipment kit and several Coopers kits to get me started last summer It goes on sale every month or so.
They carry the pink stuff called Sani Brew.. I think it is supposed to be a cleaner.

Good luck with your first adventures

Click to expand...

Since I've done zero brewing - all of my equipment is clean of any debris.

I was hoping I could just skip to the sanitizing stage of using a campden solution wash down on everything. But I'm getting the feeling it is best to soak my bottles at this stage to remove soap residue (a few went into the dishwasher unfortunately).

Thanks for the help everybody. Much appreciated!

DoctorCAD said:

One Step is a cleaner that claims to need no rinsing, but I always rinse. Not too fond of soap in my finished product.

As others have stated, oxyclean is for really scummy bottles or label removal, not for cleaning/sanitizing.

Click to expand...

Next time you order something from an online store or shop locally, pic up Brew Meister Oxygen cleaner. Works good for low to medium dirtiness.
http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/craft-meister-oxygen-wash-product.html


They have an alkaline cleaner for really gunked up stuff.
http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/craft-meister-alkaline-wash.html

Either price is pretty fair and should last quite a while if your doing average size brews. It's nice having both handy.

Thanks for the tip! I might try finding this at my local wine/beer supplier first, many thanks.

sportpak said:

Next time you order something from an online store or shop locally, pic up Brew Meister Oxygen cleaner. Works good for low to medium dirtiness.
http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/craft-meister-oxygen-wash-product.html


They have an alkaline cleaner for really gunked up stuff.
http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/craft-meister-alkaline-wash.html

Either price is pretty fair and should last quite a while if your doing average size brews. It's nice having both handy.

Click to expand...

For cleaning I always use Star San for cleaning and sanitizing. Before anything goes into my wine, I rinse or spray with Potassium Metabisulfite.

Yes, this is the kind of simplicity us beginners really appreciate - the step-by-step hand holding! Helps like you wouldn't believe.

I think I will stop fretting about brands and hunt down the Star San.
I have the metabisulphite, as well as campden tabs. So almost there.

goosen1 said:

For cleaning I always use Star San for cleaning and sanitizing. Before anything goes into my wine, I rinse or spray with Potassium Metabisulfite.

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Star San is a sanitizer, not really a cleaner.

It needs to be clean before it can be effectively sanitized.

You don't *need* a special cleaner. The oxiclean and PBW and whatnot just make it easier. I'll often just wash out my fermenters (buckets) with a nylon brush and dish soap.

Just rinse very well.

I do like an oxiclean soak for my carboys where I can't get in with a brush to scrub.

The dishwasher is fine for bottles that are already debris free. Some folks even run them through the dry cycle as a heat sanitation step.

Don't over think it. It's not rocket surgery.

The guy who makes star San even talks about using bleach buffered with vinegar as an effective sanitizer.

I like the idea of being able to rely on a mild soap and water solution for hand cleaning (the first step). My carboys are glass, one gallon in size, and brand new. I know that doesn't mean they are "clean clean" but I don't need to bring out the heavy duty cleaners this time

I am visiting a store this week that hopefully carries oxiclean. I was hoping to use that on my gallon carboys and tubing and later the bottles (some still have labels).

From what I understand... you need a tougher cleaner for the tougher debris and for your stains/dirt/clumps etc. But if all of your equipment & vessels are free of debris and have sat largely unused - a mild soap solution works fine?

I think my confusion lies in the slightly different methods people use to clean and sanitize. Different people favor different products as well. There is also a bit of a war of the words thing going on where some prefer the word sanitize while others say sterilize. Often, people argue which is which.

I DO understand there is a TWO STEP PROCESS: cleaning (macro) and sanitizing/sterilizing (micro).

For the sanitizing and please correct me if I am wrong... I understand bleach works in a pinch, but is not recommended (requires multiple thorough rinsing to get out smell and residue? And Campden tablets/k-meta powder is fine for the second step/sanitizing as well?

I know that Star San is considered one of (many) top options. It's just that I cannot get ahold of it for another week or so (needs ordering in). At this point I was hoping I could find viable alternatives in my cupboard or locally.

I've watched tons of old school videos where potassium metabisulphite was the only sanitizer used (after the cleaning stage). Is this still a viable option or is it now considered a last resort (I ask because Star San seems to have top spot)?

Thanks for the help!

jtratcliff said:

Star San is a sanitizer, not really a cleaner.

It needs to be clean before it can be effectively sanitized.

You don't *need* a special cleaner. The oxiclean and PBW and whatnot just make it easier. I'll often just wash out my fermenters (buckets) with a nylon brush and dish soap.

Just rinse very well.

I do like an oxiclean soak for my carboys where I can't get in with a brush to scrub.

The dishwasher is fine for bottles that are already debris free. Some folks even run them through the dry cycle as a heat sanitation step.

Don't over think it. It's not rocket surgery.

The guy who makes star San even talks about using bleach buffered with vinegar as an effective sanitizer.

Click to expand...

Csmpden or potassium metabisulfite is the sanitizer of choice for most home winemakers.

To be honest, you could use plain water and a really good brush snd get glassware clean, its pretty smooth and not porous. Rinse with csmpden solution and your good to go.

You are really overthinking this. Simple process...clean well then sanitize.

Stuff doesn't need to be sterile.. just sanitized.

Beware oxiclean and other percarbonates with tubing... the vinyl tubing can become cloudy. Not a functional issue, just esthetic. Supposedly boiling removes the haze. I've never bothered... hazy tubing is OK with me

remember, Oxiclean is just a brand for a percarbonate cleaner... any one will work.

Percarbonates are nice to use because it will float off krausen rings and other stuck-on gunk. without scrubbing. With a carboy brush, wet rag, or whatever.. you can still clean. It's just more work.

Oxi/PBW/whatnot just makes it less labor intensive.

You want it clean and sanitized before use. There are many ways to get there.

I use campden tabs to remove chlorine/chloramines from tap water does it sanitize too? I thought campden was K-meta? An that it just stopped wild yeast from reproducing... Does it deal with other bacteria, fungus etc?

If you can clean w/out oxi/PBW then fine. Sanitation can be accomplished many different ways as well. Bleach buffered w/ vinegar, Star San (which is a phosphoric acid plend), Iodine (i.e. iodophor), etc.

I've read here of some folks who go get iodine from the livestock supply. It's very similar to the providone Iodine in Iodophor (if not the same)... just cheaper and only rated for livestock.

Oven sanitizing is another way... heat your bottles at a high enough temp for a long enough time and they are sanitized (not necessarily sterilized).

Many ways to the same end. Don't get hung up on specifics.... Do what works for you...

Here, check out this thread:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/id...anitize-properly-but-i-need-some-help-442568/

In my 1st post there, I have a few links that might be helpful. Including the bleach/vinegar sanitizer link.

I definitely am overthinking! Brain hurts now :-o

I am being to see where I got confused. I am quite worried about screwing up the first batch and the boyfriend going "oh see this wasn't worth the hassle" haha! (Yes my boyfriend is difficult to please but I knew that ;-)

I am so happy to hear that campden and oxiclean is enough to get me started on my first gallon. I gather I would benefit from picking up a spray bottle and making a spray solution (with campden) as well?

Thanks for the wake up call. I see I am ready to go... no more bringing in items!

DoctorCAD said:

Csmpden or potassium metabisulfite is the sanitizer of choice for most home winemakers.

To be honest, you could use plain water and a really good brush snd get glassware clean, its pretty smooth and not porous. Rinse with csmpden solution and your good to go.

You are really overthinking this. Simple process...clean well then sanitize.

Click to expand...

Thank you jtratcliff!

This is precisely what I needed

jtratcliff said:

Here, check out this thread:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/id...anitize-properly-but-i-need-some-help-442568/

In my 1st post there, I have a few links that might be helpful. Including the bleach/vinegar sanitizer link.

Click to expand...

calmingapple said:

I definitely am overthinking! Brain hurts now :-o

I am being to see where I got confused. I am quite worried about screwing up the first batch and the boyfriend going "oh see this wasn't worth the hassle" haha! (Yes my boyfriend is difficult to please but I knew that ;-)

I am so happy to hear that campden and oxiclean is enough to get me started on my first gallon. I gather I would benefit from picking up a spray bottle and making a spray solution (with campden) as well?

Thanks for the wake up call. I see I am ready to go... no more bringing in items!

Click to expand...

Using campden tablets for sanitizing may be a little difficult, as I don't know how many you'd need in a gallon of water to make a sanitizing solution. I'm sure google could help with that, but it may be a little wasteful if you don't have powdered potassium metabisulfite (the active ingredient in campden).

Hey there,

I read somewhere that it is 4 campden tablets crushed for a gallon of water.
I think I will pick up potassium metabisulphite though next time... not a fan of crushing the tabs down.

Yooper said:

Yes, there are two steps. Cleaning, and then sanitizing (not sterilizing).



First, if something is clean, it is clean. You can rinse something, to make sure it's free of dust, but if it's clean, it is clean. No need to clean something that is already clean.



If something is not clean, it cannot be sanitized. So if it's dirty, clean first, rinse, then sanitize. If something is cleaned, it can be sanitized.



Using a food safe sanitizer is crucial. You have several commercial choices- One Step, Iodophor, Star-san, and even powdered potassium metabisulfite (available in winemaking shops). Everything that touches the wine must be sanitized before using- bungs, airlocks, siphon equipment, bottles, tubing, hydrometers, carboys, etc. In a pinch, a diluted bleach solution can be used but it must be completely rinsed in order to avoid off-flavors in the wine, so it's generally not used as there are other and better no-rinse sanitizers available.

Click to expand...

+1 on Yoopers break down of the correct process. Miles in is for removing particulates and sanitizing is for eliminating as many microbes that might infect your beer. It is NOT sterilizing but as close as you can economically achieve.
I prefer B-Brite for cleansing & StarSan for sanitizing. I also use SaniCleanse in hot water during cleanup on all my utensils, hoses, pumps, etc.
I do disagree that zone Step is both a cleanser. & sanitizer. It is a cleanser.


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