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Old 05-25-2012, 07:40 PM   #1
Norwest
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Default Anyone used pectinase help extract juice?

Hi,

I am going to make some cherry cider/wine and was thinking of using pectinse to liberate the juice. Anyone have some experinece using pectinase? I know there are some purer pectinase preparations used to extract grape juice for wine and there are some less pure preparations used for fruit juice extractions. The less pure versions contain cinnamyl esterase activity which can remove some fresh fruity flavors in some wines and can generate vinyl phenol off-flavors (medicinal flavors) which both sound undesrable for what I want to do. Any suggestions on specific pectinase types and retail suppliers? Several homebrew and wine suppliers have pectinase but do not discuss what type/brand it is. I know Novozymes makes bothe pure and crude pectinase versions but can't figure out where to buy retail. Working on getting my Single Proprietor Tax ID so I can set up a commercial account to buy stuff like this from the manufacturer.

Thanks,

Norwest

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Old 05-25-2012, 11:55 PM   #2
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Pretty sure most winemakers use pectinase, aka pectic enzyme. I would buy it from your local homebrew store and discuss your aims, and they'll give you the right thing. Theoretically you won't be using enough of it to give any off flavours, particularly if you get the stuff that your LHBS is selling, since they sell it specifically FOR winemaking.

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Old 05-27-2012, 12:17 PM   #3
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I use pectic enzyme in every fruit wine I make. It helps with juice/flavour extraction as well as clearing. I've never noticed any off flavours or loss of flavour from it. I just use the plain old generic LHBS pectic enzyme, looks a bit like granulated sugar or salt.
Regards, GF.

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Old 05-27-2012, 03:40 PM   #4
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Pith and GF
Thank you for your responses. Sounds like the stuff sold by my LHBS would work fine. GF do you have any general suggestions on the process of fruit maceration using pectinase? I will be making cherry wine and cherry wash for Kircsh. How thoroughly does the fruit break down with the pectinase? Will the mash end up smooth and amenable to siphoning or is it still lumpy? Is mechanical maceration also required? I was going to try using paddle type cement/paint mixer on a drill to try to help break up the cherries. Thanks, Norwest

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Old 05-27-2012, 08:33 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norwest
Pith and GF
Thank you for your responses. Sounds like the stuff sold by my LHBS would work fine. GF do you have any general suggestions on the process of fruit maceration using pectinase? I will be making cherry wine and cherry wash for Kircsh. How thoroughly does the fruit break down with the pectinase? Will the mash end up smooth and amenable to siphoning or is it still lumpy? Is mechanical maceration also required? I was going to try using paddle type cement/paint mixer on a drill to try to help break up the cherries. Thanks, Norwest
Long story short: do what Jack Keller says. He's the guy whose info just about everyone on this forum trusts. His recipe will be possibly one of the best you'll find. http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/reques61.asp
__________________
Primary:
7L of NSPA + 1kg honey + 3L white grape juice
Bulk Aging:
3787 Saaz/Styrian Porter (on palm sugar)
Autumn Wheat Beer (on "Profruit Krimsonberries")
3787 Bochet
Jack Keller's Seville Orange Wine
Bottled:
Nelson Sauvin Pale Ale
Autumn Wheat Beer
3787 Saaz/Styrian Porter
3787 Bochet
3787 Dubbel
Jack Keller's Seville Orange Wine
Wild Cyser
Future:
Stella-hopped Saison
Blackberry Wine or Bochet
Stout Bochet
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Old 05-28-2012, 11:11 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norwest View Post
Pith and GF
Thank you for your responses. Sounds like the stuff sold by my LHBS would work fine. GF do you have any general suggestions on the process of fruit maceration using pectinase? I will be making cherry wine and cherry wash for Kircsh. How thoroughly does the fruit break down with the pectinase? Will the mash end up smooth and amenable to siphoning or is it still lumpy? Is mechanical maceration also required? I was going to try using paddle type cement/paint mixer on a drill to try to help break up the cherries. Thanks, Norwest
I always put my fruit through a freeze/thaw, freeze/thaw...
Meaning I freeze & thaw the fruit twice. This really does wonders for breaking down cell walls & making maceration easy. After the 2nd thaw, the fruit is so soft, you could probably skip the maceration, but I do it anyway, I want the maximum amount of flavour from the fruit.

I usually either put the fruit in a bag & use my hands to crush it, or sometimes I just dump the fruit into the bucket fermenter & use a potato masher on it; just depends on the type of fruit, the amount & my recipe.

Fruit like plums & peaches get sliced before freezing, berries get frozen whole. Cherries get pitted before freezing, but there are a couple varieties of cherry that won't fit thru my pitter, so those get frozen whole & mashed with a potato masher.

Some fruits will retain their shape more than others, but mostly they all end up as a sort of lumpy mush or sludge in the bottom of the fermenter unless contained in a bag. The bag makes things a lot easier.
Hope this info helps. Regards, GF.
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Old 05-29-2012, 09:56 PM   #7
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Freeze/thaw/freeze/thaw doesn't work with mulberries, just in case anyone was gonna. Their low shelf-life means they suffer in flavour pretty bad.

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Primary:
7L of NSPA + 1kg honey + 3L white grape juice
Bulk Aging:
3787 Saaz/Styrian Porter (on palm sugar)
Autumn Wheat Beer (on "Profruit Krimsonberries")
3787 Bochet
Jack Keller's Seville Orange Wine
Bottled:
Nelson Sauvin Pale Ale
Autumn Wheat Beer
3787 Saaz/Styrian Porter
3787 Bochet
3787 Dubbel
Jack Keller's Seville Orange Wine
Wild Cyser
Future:
Stella-hopped Saison
Blackberry Wine or Bochet
Stout Bochet
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Old 05-30-2012, 07:09 AM   #8
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Hi,

I am a bit concerned about the potential detremental taste/aroma effects of freeze-thawing especialy multiple cycles. Also I do not think my wife will appreciate me filling up our modest size chest freezer with 50 lbs of cherries. In a weak moment I purchased a commercial immersion blender on Ebay for about 1/2 of retail. My curent plan is to pit the cherries, add pectinase, blend the crap out of the cherries, adjust pH, and pitch the yeast. Pith, I am curious about mulberry wine. I have hear of mulberry wine and seen some trees around but never tried them or know what they taste like. I have read that mulberries and the various plant parts have been used as medicine and contain the super-antioxidant resveritol. Also read that the unripe fruit exudes latex containg sap that is halucigenic. Thanks, Norwest

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Old 06-04-2012, 06:40 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norwest
Hi,

I am a bit concerned about the potential detremental taste/aroma effects of freeze-thawing especialy multiple cycles. Also I do not think my wife will appreciate me filling up our modest size chest freezer with 50 lbs of cherries. In a weak moment I purchased a commercial immersion blender on Ebay for about 1/2 of retail. My curent plan is to pit the cherries, add pectinase, blend the crap out of the cherries, adjust pH, and pitch the yeast. Pith, I am curious about mulberry wine. I have hear of mulberry wine and seen some trees around but never tried them or know what they taste like. I have read that mulberries and the various plant parts have been used as medicine and contain the super-antioxidant resveritol. Also read that the unripe fruit exudes latex containg sap that is halucigenic. Thanks, Norwest
Your plan sounds fine. Don't worry about freezing. Only blend the fruit VERY briefly though, just so it looks chopped finely; fruit purée will take AGES to settle out from the sludgy mess. If you're patient for the settling out time, go nuts with your "blending the crap out of" them. Personally, I think the time it would take to slice the cherries in half and dump them in the fermenter with the water, sugar and pectinase would be more than worth the time you have to wait for sludge to settle out. Judging by the lateness of my reply, it may be too late though.

Mulberries have a very delicate taste, especially American varieties, so if you want to use them, use the juice as much as possible, add as little water as possible, or no water. You'll need to boost the sugar with white sugar or a light flavoured honey, as mulberry juice by itself will only give you about four percent abv.

I haven't heard about anything to do with health benefits, but best guesses say they would be outweighed by the general detriment of alcohol.

If the hallucinogenic thing was worthwhile, I would have heard it from one of a certain circle of friends who are very much into that sort of thing. Also, it would probably be outlawed if it were true. EDIT: just looked it up, and yeah, apparently it is hallucinogenic but also gives you severe upsets in stomach and head. I suppose it's similar to the situation with nutmeg.
__________________
Primary:
7L of NSPA + 1kg honey + 3L white grape juice
Bulk Aging:
3787 Saaz/Styrian Porter (on palm sugar)
Autumn Wheat Beer (on "Profruit Krimsonberries")
3787 Bochet
Jack Keller's Seville Orange Wine
Bottled:
Nelson Sauvin Pale Ale
Autumn Wheat Beer
3787 Saaz/Styrian Porter
3787 Bochet
3787 Dubbel
Jack Keller's Seville Orange Wine
Wild Cyser
Future:
Stella-hopped Saison
Blackberry Wine or Bochet
Stout Bochet
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