About to make Apple Wine - Sugar Question

Hi everybody,

I am hoping to get feedback on the following project.

My parents bought me back some supplies from the States knowing I wanted to get started in home winemaking.

I don't have a direct recipe in mind, but I do have the following items (this will be a 1 gallon batch):

- 100% Apple Juice, 1 Gallon
- Acid Blend
- Yeast Nutrient
- Cotes de Blanc Yeast
- Pure Cane Sugar

Should I set out to try making a dry Apple wine from this? And do you think it will turn out dry and clean even if using the cane sugar? Should I add anything? I normally drink Merlot and prefer dry, oaky wine... I am really not a fan of most white wines. So I am hoping this comes out more towards the dry yet still fruity spectrum.

I understand that I can make invert sugar by boiling cane sugar in filtered water (2-3 cups of sugar to quart of water)? If I am not mistaken - invert sugar helps to prevent "off flavors" and won't delay fermentation time (for the sugar to get broken down by the yeast)?

Thanks for your help!

Sounds like a simple, tried and true winner. Set your SG @ 1.100, and the CdB yeast will finish it dry. It's what I use almost exclusively, and it'll run up to 15% easy.

Edit: Forget boiling the sugar. Not needed. You won't have problems fermenting it...

Thanks for the reply lukebuz!
Glad I am on the right track. I was worried that the cane sugar might produce too much cider flavors and off flavors.
Hell, I even just finished reading an article about the finicky nature of Cotes de Blanc yeast never quite making it to malolactic fermentation (then the article went way over my head), was dejected for a short bit, and then decided to post and guage people's thoughts on the forum here.

Glad to hear these ingredients have a reputation for success
I think I'll get to making it soon!

****Only one question: How does one "set" the SG? Does this mean adjust sugar till it reads a certain number? I'm a total beginner!

lukebuz said:

Sounds like a simple, tried and true winner. Set your SG @ 1.100, and the CdB yeast will finish it dry. It's what I use almost exclusively, and it'll run up to 15% easy.

Edit: Forget boiling the sugar. Not needed. You won't have problems fermenting it...

Click to expand...

Actually, can I pester you for a recipe? Or just a nudge in the right direction for a 1 gallon batch of this?

How much cane sugar do you recommend I use. And do you dissolve the sugar in water first?

Many thanks for your time!

lukebuz said:

Sounds like a simple, tried and true winner. Set your SG @ 1.100, and the CdB yeast will finish it dry. It's what I use almost exclusively, and it'll run up to 15% easy.

Edit: Forget boiling the sugar. Not needed. You won't have problems fermenting it...

Click to expand...

Search "EdWort's Apfelwein" on this forum. Tons of great info on that thread for doing exactly what you're proposing.

Cheers!

Here's my favorite apple wine recipe, and it's easy (and good!): https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f79/apple-juice-wine-27602/

Thank you for mentioning this one. It's definitely on my to-do list. Since I'm so new at this, I might be mixing up the end results in my mind.
But I was aiming for a higher ABV apple wine - and for the cider I still want(need?) to source corn sugar (because I am a stickler for details and if Ed Wort says corn sugar then I damn well better buy corn sugar ;-)

Next up on my to-do list. But I figured I'd opt to make a more wine-like product this go around.

W0GWT said:

Search "EdWort's Apfelwein" on this forum. Tons of great info on that thread for doing exactly what you're proposing.

Cheers!

Click to expand...

Thank you Yooper! That's perfect and just what I had in mind. My apologies... I had searched around before for a recipe but certain things kept throwing me off. This is precisely the ingredients I have and helps to avoid any ambiguity for me as a beginner.

Thanks!

Yooper said:

Here's my favorite apple wine recipe, and it's easy (and good!): https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f79/apple-juice-wine-27602/

Click to expand...

Okay one hump left to get over. Yooper, the recipe calls for 1/4 tsp tannin - can I get away with using brewed ceylon/black tea instead (allowing it to cool before mixing)? I'm not sure how much I need of that strong tea for this exact recipe. Any idea what would work best? 1/2 cup of brewed black tea maybe? I'm sure if I use the wrong amount it will taste god awful!

1/4 tsp of tannin sounds like a very small amount but since that is in its powdered/dry form - I am having a hard time imagining the equivalent in liquid (tea) form.

Thanks as always! Sorry for all the Qs!

calmingapple said:

Okay one hump left to get over. Yooper, the recipe calls for 1/4 tsp tannin - can I get away with using brewed ceylon/black tea instead (allowing it to cool before mixing)? I'm not sure how much I need of that strong tea for this exact recipe. Any idea what would work best? 1/2 cup of brewed black tea maybe? I'm sure if I use the wrong amount it will taste god awful!

1/4 tsp of tannin sounds like a very small amount but since that is in its powdered/dry form - I am having a hard time imagining the equivalent in liquid (tea) form.

Thanks as always! Sorry for all the Qs!

Click to expand...

You can try leaving the tannin out completely first, and then seeing if you even need it. I like it, as it provides "bite" to the wine but you may be fine without it. It is a very small amount- but it is very powerful stuff and sometimes even 1/8 teaspoon is plenty (or too much) in some wines. I wouldn't use black tea in water as a sub- that would provide water and not just tannin. You may want to see how it comes out first, and then decide what to do.

I do like bite to my wine I can order tannin from my local store but it will take a month to arrive and was hoping to attempt this recipe this week.

After a quick Google I did find this short entry on tannin subs (from a website instructing how to make mead):

3. Tannin: equivalent of 1/4 teaspoons per 5 liters.

Alternative sources: Brewed black tea (1-2 tablespoons); Cream of tartar; Leaves, stems, and bark; grape skins

Note: exact amounts of alternative additives will vary with the recipe and personal preference. Use the "equivalent" amounts as a rough guide, remembering that those amounts represent concentrated amounts, and that amounts are per 5 liters.

Yooper said:

You can try leaving the tannin out completely first, and then seeing if you even need it. I like it, as it provides "bite" to the wine but you may be fine without it. It is a very small amount- but it is very powerful stuff and sometimes even 1/8 teaspoon is plenty (or too much) in some wines. I wouldn't use black tea in water as a sub- that would provide water and not just tannin. You may want to see how it comes out first, and then decide what to do.

Click to expand...

My hunch (even though I'm totally new to this whole thing) is that 1-2 Tablespoons of strong tea is not enough to water things down or throw the recipe out of whack.

But then, what do I know? However I am feeling lucky today... maybe I should just give it a go and see what happens

Thanks for the advice Yooper! Your recipe was written well, nice & straight forward. Gives me an opportunity to learn to read the hydrometer.

Well after some thinking (this is me thinking aloud now haha), I figured it would be okay for me to put 1 teaspoon of strong brewed black tea into the gallon carboy in place of the tannin. This way I get a hint of bite but I didn't overdo it (whereas 1-2 tablespoon of tea was recommended from that website). I do recall CJ Berry mentioning using black brewed tea as a good substitute. But the measurements are what throw me. I don't recall CJ Berry noting amt for one gallon batch.

Remember you can always add the tannin, either powdered or your tea form, anytime, including close to bottling time so no need to make the decision to add it now. You can wait and see if it would be enhanced with it later, by adding it to a tiny sample and tasting.

And add some oak since you like oaked wines, we like a med toast, start with a little at first in the primary, add more later if its not enough. Isnt the apple harvest going on right now near you guys up north, do you have acess to any fresh pressed cider? WVMJ

If you ferment apple juice to more than approx. 9% ABV, it loses all of it's taste. It might come back if you let it age for a long time. Just sayin'.

If you're wanting something high ABV & tasty, and don't mind waiting a couple years for it to get really good, try a cyser. Apple juice, & 3lbs honey/gallon, with yeast nutrient/energizer/DAP. Use a wine yeast like K1V-1116 or EC-1118 & keep your fermentation temps on the low end.
Regards, GF.

podz said:

If you ferment apple juice to more than approx. 9% ABV, it loses all of it's taste. It might come back if you let it age for a long time. Just sayin'.

Click to expand...

I disagree. My dry apple @ 13.5 is delicious. I think your taste buds need recalibrated.

No, I am totally out of luck on that front. I don't drive (I know, I'm lame haha). Keeps me in great shape though... I carry home HUGE bags of stuff all the time.

I will probably go across the border to Blaine here soon with the family on vacation. I presume there is an orchard I can visit near Blaine (one would hope). But since you cannot bring fresh apples back but can bring huge buckets of juice, I really should consider stocking up! haha But I yes my goal is to try this soon as I can.

I'm okay starting with store bought stuff and experimenting. I love that Apfelwein has a humble ingredient list.

I'm just fine with that for now. In the meantime, I visit a local U-Brew and order Merlot to tide me over.

WVMJ said:

And add some oak since you like oaked wines, we like a med toast, start with a little at first in the primary, add more later if its not enough. Isnt the apple harvest going on right now near you guys up north, do you have acess to any fresh pressed cider? WVMJ

Click to expand...

Sounds like a good thing to try, thanks for the suggestion.
I can definitely wait - but I might have to hide it on myself ;-)

gratus fermentatio said:

If you're wanting something high ABV & tasty, and don't mind waiting a couple years for it to get really good, try a cyser. Apple juice, & 3lbs honey/gallon, with yeast nutrient/energizer/DAP. Use a wine yeast like K1V-1116 or EC-1118 & keep your fermentation temps on the low end.
Regards, GF.

Click to expand...

Thank you for that tip! Good to know

Yooper said:

Remember you can always add the tannin, either powdered or your tea form, anytime, including close to bottling time so no need to make the decision to add it now. You can wait and see if it would be enhanced with it later, by adding it to a tiny sample and tasting.

Click to expand...

Our cyser doesnt take years to get good and its much higher then 9%. Might be some of you guys need to use gooder apples WVMJ

Man, all this talk about orchards and such has me pining for apples

WVMJ said:

Our cyser doesnt take years to get good and its much higher then 9%. Might be some of you guys need to use gooder apples WVMJ

Click to expand...