good BIAB calculator??

laserghost said:

DZ, if you wanna sparge so bad go setup a three vessel system. Doesn't seem like you want to BIAB or you would have gone to biabrewer.info instead of posting a steady loop of noise here.

If there is no sparge then how do you explain the huge difference in mash efficiency, simply by mashing with all the water (high) vs holding some back and topping up after (low)?

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Technically, BIAB is no sparge, but it's really splitting hairs. A sparge is a specific rinsing technique added in order to get the maximum extraction out of the grain. Because the water ratio for mashing is needed to be so low, the water sort of becomes "over saturated" and not all of the sugars can be dissolved, so you rinse the grains after with the difference in volume to make up for this. It's a workaround. Ideally, mashing would just be done in the full volume and max extraction would be attained.

By keeping the grains contained in a bag, BIAB can create the lower local mash-water ratio needed for mashing, while still allowing for enough total water to dissolve the sugars. It doesn't use sparging as a solution to the efficiency problem, but an entirely different technique altogether, which is precisely what makes it unique. No reason to chastise someone for pointing this out.

Ideally, mashing would just be done in the full volume and max extraction would be attained.

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BIAB, when done properly does use the full volume, and its efficiency into kettle is higher than batch sparging.

The higher water ratio effectively rinses the grains ... during the mash. It is indeed a unique technique.

laserghost said:

BIAB, when done properly does use the full volume, and its efficiency into kettle is higher than batch sparging.

The higher water ratio effectively rinses the grains ... during the mash. It is indeed a unique technique.

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It doesn't rinse them, but allows for the sugars to be dissolved fully due to the larger water volume. Rinsing (sparging) is what you do to dissolve all the sugars when you DON'T mash in the full volume, like in a traditional mash. Like I said, it's really just splitting hairs, but saying that BIAB is no sparge is certainly not wrong, and is in fact technically more correct.

MrKrinkle151 said:

It doesn't rinse them, but allows for the sugars to be dissolved fully due to the larger water volume. Rinsing (sparging) is what you do to dissolve all the sugars when you DON'T mash in the full volume, like in a traditional mash. Like I said, it's really just splitting hairs, but saying that BIAB is no sparge is certainly not wrong, and is in fact technically more correct.

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I understand what you're getting at, but you're only confusing the issue. you're not actively rinsing the sugars off that are stuck to the grain, after the first wort has been drained off. Sparging is a purposeful action. With BIAB, your mashing with as thin of a wort as your process allows, leaving minimal sugar stuck to the grains; so little that you don't care that they're stuck there.

Weezy said:

I understand what you're getting at, but you're only confusing the issue. you're not actively rinsing the sugars off that are stuck to the grain, after the first wort has been drained off. Sparging is a purposeful action. With BIAB, your mashing with as thin of a wort as your process allows, leaving minimal sugar stuck to the grains; so little that you don't care that they're stuck there.

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I'm not saying that you rinse the grain during BIAB. I think you're confused as to what my point is. I was simply trying to defend the poster who was greeted rather unkindly with the assertion that BIAB is no sparge. I was pointing out that this is technically true.

You're confusing what I'm saying. If you're not actively rinsing grains post mash, you're not sparging. Period. There's no "technically". Sparging is well defined. You either do it or you do not. There's no "technically.". Dont confuse the terminology.

I use Brewtoad and like it a lot. You enter your ingredients and batch size and there's a button for mash calculation -- pretty straightforward.

Added bonus that it tracks each recipe for you and it's super easy to make variants (copy/paste). Haven't used the social feature much. Maybe I'm asocial... <returns to mom's basement.>

laserghost said:

BIAB, when done properly does use the full volume, and its efficiency into kettle is higher than batch sparging.

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So a full volume mash with a bag, or BIAB is more efficient than batch sparging?

The bag is merely a mechanical means to separate the grain, or lauter.

Sorry, I can't accept that a full volume mash via BIAB or any other method is more efficient than batch sparging.

Theoretically, BIAB could never be as efficient as sparging. Theoretically, you could mash at 1.3 quarts/lb, then sparge with 50 gallons of water, to be sure and rinse every microgram of sugar off the grain. You'd have to boil for 3 days and the beer probably won't turn out well, but you'd maximize efficiency. BIAB accepts that some amount of pretty dilute sugar will be left behind on the grain.

The bag is merely a mechanical means to separate the grain, or lauter.

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Well said! I agree 1,000%.

www.brewtoad.com has a pretty good mash water calculator. You can select BIAB with or without a sparge.

sure the bag is simply a lautering device. but mash thickness does affect extraction ... the thinner the mash (to an extent probably), the higher extract:

http://www.braukaiser.com/wiki/inde...ncy_in_single_infusion_mashing#Mash_thickness

re: batch sparge extraction, i was referencing this equipment profiler (really helpful btw) http://sigginet.info/brewing/tools/equipment-profile-helper/

sure, the efficiencies into kettle for each method (fly sparge / biab / batch sparge) are simply estimates. though, i typically get 80% into kettle using full volume BIAB, no separate sparging. it averages a batch sparge at 75%

laserghost, stop ruining the sanctity of sparriage(sic).

Thank You,

HBT hivemind

Weezy said:

You're confusing what I'm saying. If you're not actively rinsing grains post mash, you're not sparging. Period. There's no "technically". Sparging is well defined. You either do it or you do not. There's no "technically.". Dont confuse the terminology.

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That's what I've been saying, just in more delicate and moderate terms....

I can see how others might see this method as an alternative "sparging" (as many apparently do, so I was speaking to them), but this is technically not the case (technically meaning we're taking this usage of sparging in a strictly defined and literal sense). I wholly agree that if you aren't actively rinsing the grains, there is no sparge occurring.

If you're actually interested in BIAB, then you need to head over to biabrewer.info – you will find the truth on that forum.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

BIAB is No Sparge...... this is because there is no need for it. by doing a full volume BIAB the grains are rinsed when you lift the bag out, you could also dunk the bag a couple times to rinse the grains a little more. My last BIAB I was able to get 83% efficiency.... just as good as with all the fancy mash tuns and sparge set-ups.... The result of sparging is attained by performing a full volume BIAB.

Like it has been mentioned before, GO TO biabrewer.info to learn more about the process, I don`t see why people keep arguing semantics.