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Old 10-05-2012, 04:36 PM   #11
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Dang, I've been doing this BIAB thing all wrong. I just made two batches with about 11 pounds of grain each using full volume for mashing and managed to fit it all into my 7 1/2 gallon pot. By the end of the boil I had about 5.25 gallons of wort. Now explain to me how I fit the 9.91 gallons (shown in the OP's first post) or even the 7.91 gallons shown in post #7 into my 7 1/2 gallon pot.
You have a different boil-off rate and I'm willing to bet you don't leave a quart or more of trub sitting in the bottom of the kettle.


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Old 10-05-2012, 04:43 PM   #12
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Not really... You have to set up Beersmith correctly for BIAB. It takes some testing for your equipment but the Beersmith website shows you how to dial it in.

Let me rephrase that...I previously did BIAB in Beersmith v1 and never had a problem with it. Then I upgrade, and did mostly stuff with a separate MLT until late last year, at which time I went back to BIAB. So, I select BIAB equipment for my equipment, I select BIAB mash profile for my mash, and all of the numbers that it gave me on the brewsheet were wrong. It was coming up with impossible numbers. e.g. I set my target batch size to 5.25 gallons, and it tells me I should have 7 gallons post boil.

I was able to get it closer by a lot of tweaks to the default equipment profiles, but it still have weird numbers coming out for some of the volumes. So I ended up making my own spreadsheet and nowadays I stick by that because I know it works well for my system. Brad may have then subsequently gone back and released a new version that addressed these issues, but out of the box it was worse than useless; it actually gave people incorrect instructions.


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Old 10-05-2012, 05:16 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by weirdboy

Let me rephrase that...I previously did BIAB in Beersmith v1 and never had a problem with it. Then I upgrade, and did mostly stuff with a separate MLT until late last year, at which time I went back to BIAB. So, I select BIAB equipment for my equipment, I select BIAB mash profile for my mash, and all of the numbers that it gave me on the brewsheet were wrong. It was coming up with impossible numbers. e.g. I set my target batch size to 5.25 gallons, and it tells me I should have 7 gallons post boil.

I was able to get it closer by a lot of tweaks to the default equipment profiles, but it still have weird numbers coming out for some of the volumes. So I ended up making my own spreadsheet and nowadays I stick by that because I know it works well for my system. Brad may have then subsequently gone back and released a new version that addressed these issues, but out of the box it was worse than useless; it actually gave people incorrect instructions.
Dude... I totally believe you. When I first started doing BIAB, Beersmith was so far off I couldn't believe it. I had to read like 10 posts from guys who were experiencing issues. Originally, I just used a BIAB spreadsheet. But, after some tweaks, reading, tweaking and so on. I finally figured out my profile for all of the different batch sizes and equipment profiles and it works. There's also a grain absorption number in there I had to set because I had to kind of match it to how much I squeezed. I do remember it being a total PITA and don't even know if I could replicate it easily with a new pot. But it is possible. Now it gets me to within less than a quart on a big batch and a few ounces on a smaller one. Good luck with yours!
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Old 10-05-2012, 06:12 PM   #14
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OK well the grain is going to absorb about 1.25 gallons of water (actually a bit more), assuming you squeeze the bag pretty well and collect the runoff. So that means you need at a bare minimum:

5.5 (batch size) +
1.25 (losses to grain absorption) +
1.0 or more (boil-off)
----
7.75 gallons, assuming you have absolutely no trub losses (fat chance) and boil off water at exactly 1 gallon per hour...that really depends on your particular system.

On my system (which does boil-off pretty close to 1 gallon per hour), I would use more like 8.25 gallons to account for trub losses, a bit of spillage, and the wort that remains in the hoses & chiller after transferring to the fermenter.

I usually just sort of estimate my strike water temp, but I would probably heat the strike water to about 157F or so and stir in the grain. You may end up a bit low or a bit high, but it is pretty easy to make small temperature adjustments in BIAB, which is why I don't worry about dialing it in too accurately.
thanx for the reply......
are there any forumlas to determine grain absorption per lb?
i have not seen this kind of info in the dave miller book that i used to learn with.
i'll research this i'm sure the formulas can be found....and i imagine I'm probably being too anal over all this since BIAB is supposed to be simplicity.

aprreciate everyones replys......

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Old 10-05-2012, 07:55 PM   #15
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I entered all your info into the calculator and got 7.91 gallons, 161.85 strike temp, for a 5.25 gallon batch.
i found this today on the internet...i know it's not for BIAB but i think it will help me to understand whats happening and how to calculate for the water losts.

http://www.brew365.com/technique_calculating_mash_water_volume.php

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Old 10-05-2012, 09:06 PM   #16
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thanx for the reply......
are there any forumlas to determine grain absorption per lb?
i have not seen this kind of info in the dave miller book that i used to learn with.
i'll research this i'm sure the formulas can be found....and i imagine I'm probably being too anal over all this since BIAB is supposed to be simplicity.

aprreciate everyones replys......

GD51

For BIAB the grain absorption rate can vary depending on how your system works, how much you squeeze the bag, etc.

For my system I use .10 gallon/lb. and get pretty close. I have seen figures as low as .05 gallon/lb thrown around before, but to me that seems like you'd have to do an awful lot of work to get that much liquid back out. I'm lazy.
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Old 10-06-2012, 04:38 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by RM-MN View Post
Dang, I've been doing this BIAB thing all wrong. I just made two batches with about 11 pounds of grain each using full volume for mashing and managed to fit it all into my 7 1/2 gallon pot. By the end of the boil I had about 5.25 gallons of wort. Now explain to me how I fit the 9.91 gallons (shown in the OP's first post) or even the 7.91 gallons shown in post #7 into my 7 1/2 gallon pot.
Because 11 lbs. is not 12.75 lbs.
My BIAB brews are typically in the 13 lb range, and the full volume water that my system needs does not fit in my 8 gallon kettle, which means I go to my 15 gallon kettle, which means my boil off rate is much higher, which means I need even more water.
Every bodies system is different, so no, it doesn't mean you're doing it wrong, it just means your system is different.
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Old 11-18-2012, 12:14 PM   #18
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I'm willing to bet you don't leave a quart or more of trub sitting in the bottom of the kettle.
I leave probably a half quart, 3/4 tops. It's hard to separate the clear stuff from the muck, unless I were carefully siphoning off the wort in to my primary
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Old 11-18-2012, 01:11 PM   #19
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After a couple of batches I came to use about .11 Gal/lb so that seems to be a pretty consistent absorption ratio. Here is a pretty nice and simple excel calculator it even gives you your mash volume. For the trub in the kettle I just dump it all in unless I used a huge amount of hops.

http://www.homebrewfinds.com/2012/03/start-all-grain-brewing-for-4-water.html

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Old 11-18-2012, 02:50 PM   #20
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There are more than a few ways to BIAB but if you really want to true BIAB, you need to add all of your water up front. Which means my 8 gallon pot doesn't usually work for a full 5 gallon brew with a sizeable grain bill. But, you can easily modify it by using a couple of kettles and sparging, doing sort of a partial boil or tossing in a bit of DME or LME to make up the difference so you can use your 7.5 gallon pot. I also scale some of my recipes down a bit to a 4 gallon just so I can use a smaller pot. But that means less beer... But in my case, I also do 1-2 and 3 gallon batches so I can have a variety.
This is what I've found to work best for me. I too only have a 7.5 gallon kettle and I like my 5 gallon batches. So what I do is, using a full grain bill from whatever recipe I'm using, mash the grains in about 6 gallons of water in my 7.5 gallon kettle. I then have a 5 gallon kettle that I will fill with about 2.5 gallons of water and sparge the grain bag in there at about 170 degrees. I then combine the two liquids into my 7.5 gallon kettle for the boil. I've been getting between 75 and 80 on my efficiencies so far btw...


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