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Old 11-28-2012, 07:29 PM   #1101
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Originally Posted by slcdawg View Post
And a 2nd question. When steeping, Palmer and others say not to squeeze the bag to prevent extracting tannins. But, many posts on this thread suggest doing just that. Is Palmer just out of date? Do you not have to worry about it as long as the temp is low?

Cheers!
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Think of it this way: the grain bed of a massive commercial brew (BMC) is going to put more pressure on the grains than you will ever achieve. BMC beers are not known for their astringency or tannins. As long as your pH and temp are reasonable, you really don't need to worry. I've been doing BIAB for the last four years, squeezing the bejeezus out of the grain, and have never had tannins.


^^^^^ that right there...

Tannins are not extracted by pressure, they're not extracted by temp.. it takes PH. since BIAB typically does no sparge, the PH won't get out of hand. Even a pseudo sparge or a dunk sparge isn't enough to get the PH out of control and extract tannins. In a traditional 3V setup, you sparge until you hit 1.010 generally. After that PH becomes an issue and you extract tannins.

Temp isn't an issue, otherwise decoction mashing would result in beers that are all tannins no other flavors.

pressure, as mention above isn't an issue either.

BIAB takes a lot of what was previously thought to be hard facts about brewing and tosses it out the window. Embrace the change, squeeze the bag...
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Old 11-28-2012, 07:36 PM   #1102
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That makes sense. So, I should be squeezing specialty grains as well (for extract brewing)?

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Old 11-28-2012, 07:55 PM   #1103
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That makes sense. So, I should be squeezing specialty grains as well (for extract brewing)?
it wont hurt...
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Old 11-28-2012, 08:00 PM   #1104
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Do you do a mash-out at 170F for 10 minutes as part of your process? And then just top off with water to get the right pre-boil volume?



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I have a 7.5 gallon pot and have gotten the following effieciencies for recent batches:

Oktoberfest, 11 lbs grain, 77% Efficiency
Brown Ale, 8.5 lbs grain, 80%
Scotch Ale, 13 lbs grain, 76% (not including 1 lb of DME)
2 Hearted IPA, 12 lbs grain, 77%

I can exceed 80% generally when I mash 9 lbs and below. Have gotten as high as 86% on a Kolsch. But I am generally 75-82%. I do a pseudo drip sparge by suspending grain from rope/pulley in fryer basket above brew kettle. If you have a second vessel, you can get another 3-5% by dunk sparging for 10 minutes, but I generally don't bother any more.
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Old 11-28-2012, 08:18 PM   #1105
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Do you do a mash-out at 170F for 10 minutes as part of your process? And then just top off with water to get the right pre-boil volume?
Just jumping in...

I usually kick the temp up to 170f and hold for 10 min.

In my standard process I plan to add <2 liters to the kettle to get to the preboil volume. I'd rather top up then boil off. It's a matter of time.
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Old 11-29-2012, 12:59 AM   #1106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scook13339

Just jumping in...

I usually kick the temp up to 170f and hold for 10 min.

In my standard process I plan to add <2 liters to the kettle to get to the preboil volume. I'd rather top up then boil off. It's a matter of time.
I've read that this is the wrong idea for mashout. I think you supposed to bring this from mash temps to 170f over 10 minutes, not hold it at 170 for 10 minutes.

I may be wrong but that's what I read and that's how I do it!
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Old 11-29-2012, 03:29 AM   #1107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antler

I've read that this is the wrong idea for mashout. I think you supposed to bring this from mash temps to 170f over 10 minutes, not hold it at 170 for 10 minutes.

I may be wrong but that's what I read and that's how I do it!
It probably takes 10 min to bring the temp up to 170f although I don't watch it closely. The hold for 10 is to let everyone stabilize.

Truth is, it probably doesn't make a lot of difference. Mashout is a highly optional step. After I read your reply a checked in Palmer's How to Brew and he says really doesn't make a difference for loose mash 1.5 qt to lb or more. BIAB mashes are much looser then that.

I do a mashout more as a holdover from how I do a mash in a cooler. Maybe I'll cut it out and see what happens.
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Tap 2 - American Wheat
Tap 3 - House Mild
Tap 4 - Black IPA - from Lucid Brewery wort
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Old 11-29-2012, 01:05 PM   #1108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scook13339 View Post
Truth is, it probably doesn't make a lot of difference. Mashout is a highly optional step. After I read your reply a checked in Palmer's How to Brew and he says really doesn't make a difference for loose mash 1.5 qt to lb or more. BIAB mashes are much looser then that.
I've found that beers I don't mash-out have worse efficiency for me. Not terribly much, but usually the difference between 70% and 75%. It's been a long time since I last used a cooler, so I honestly don't remember if I mashed out, but with BIAB, I ALWAYS mash-out.
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Old 11-29-2012, 02:08 PM   #1109
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As I posted several pages ago, we have an on-going experiment happening on an Aussie forum wherein we are keeping track of gravity at end of mash and then gravity at end of mashout,,,,so far it appears that there is a 2-6 point gravity increase to be gained by mashingout. Perhaps those that are debating this subject here should instead try their own experiment?

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Old 11-29-2012, 02:47 PM   #1110
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My question is for those that use a 7.5 gal kettle, what is your method to get the necessary pre-boil volume? Say the recipe is 12 lbs of grain and you lose 1 gal to grain absorption. With a 7.5 gal kettle I can only mash with ~5 gal of water - which will leave me ~2 gal short. Which method do you use?

A. Mash-out at 170F. Top off to pre-boil volume
B. Skip Mash-Out. Sparge with volume of water to reach pre-boil volume
C. Mash-out and Sparge
D. Other?

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