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Home Brew Forums > Wine, Mead, Cider, Sake & Soda > Sake Forum > Making Traditional rice Wine. Cheap, Fun, and Different
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Old 09-05-2013, 03:53 AM   #2791
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Originally Posted by durianpicker View Post
...I am curious why nobody talks about age the wine (I have read up to 90 pages so far, still progressing, sorry if I miss it).

Apart from drinking it fresh, it is also quite common to age the wine in China. That's how we do it. But it is only applicable to glutinous/sticky rice.

After harvesting, let the sentiment settle down and siphoned out the clear wine. The clear wine is bottled 90% full, seal it and let it age in dark. It can be done by wrapping with newspaper. The oxidation will turn the color to golden yellow and brown if longer.

Aging time is at least 1 year, the longer the better. That's how we derive yellow wine or close to Shao Xing family wine. ...
I think you just haven't gotten to it yet. This is a very long thread.


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Thanks.

To get the clear wine and age in dark are very important. The sentiment could be the cause of sour taste. That's maybe why the Chinese use clay pot or anything opaque to age. I missed it in the previous post, after the harvest process, the wine should be heated up a little bit to kill off the remaining yeast...
I have 3 bottles of pasteurized rice wine from April first. Not joking, that's the day I pitched the batch. One made with basmati, one with jasmine, and the last with Japanese sweet rice.

I was planning on giving one of them a try around October first.

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...So, I think if you add (X) amount of water, you're going to get a much higher yield of alcohol, but it will be less sweet the more you add, though at some point you'll dilute it to where you'll begin decreasing the alcohol.
This is an interesting speculation. I've got a couple of quarts of a sweet red rice wine I wouldn't mind trying out the idea with. They've been in the fridge for a couple of months, so I'll be adding some yeast to get them started. Care to speculate on a gravity, ratio, for the dilution?

I'm kicking around with the idea of using DADY, but I've got a few other things too. Does anyone care to provide a suggestion for the yeast? Here's what I've got laying around right now:

DADY
Rice Yeast Balls
ARL
RYR
Pasteur Champagne
Premier Cuvee
Montrachet
Pasteur Red
Cote des Blancs
Danstar Munich Wheat Beer yeast, no idea what strain this is.
Safbrew wb-06
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Old 09-05-2013, 04:01 AM   #2792
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Just thinking about it, I think this wine is a bit like mead. If you've got a yeast that can only handle 15% alcohol, then any honey you add above that is going to make a sweet mead.

When talking to my Chinese friend, when they make rice wine, after everything is done.. the rice cooked/cooled and yeast balls added, they add a large amount of water before the ferment starts. I let him try some of mine, and he didn't like it at all.. too sweet. I tried his and it tasted a bit like a watery booze, but you had a rice aftertaste. Same wonderful smell of mine, but no sweetness at all. It was that golden color.

So what I'm imagining that's happening is the molds are breaking down the starches into sugars, and the yeast eat all these sugars they can up to maybe 20% alcohol, then they go dormant from too high alcohol, while the mold continues munching away and making sugars.

So, I think if you add (X) amount of water, you're going to get a much higher yield of alcohol, but it will be less sweet the more you add, though at some point you'll dilute it to where you'll begin decreasing the alcohol.
I think you're definitely on to something. With the volume of water and rice added and what's left over when the yeast reach their maximum alcohol tolerance, it makes perfect sense that there would be an effect on the end result and taste.

This makes me wonder would could happen if we use the yeast balls and, rather than pitching and leaving it alone for 3 weeks, do stepped additions of more rice and water throughout the 3 weeks. Similar to sake making. Maybe adding yeast nutrients in staggered stages like when making mead.

Oh boy, I feel many more experiments coming...
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Old 09-05-2013, 04:44 AM   #2793
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Care to speculate on a gravity, ratio, for the dilution?

Way back on 3/23 on page 127, I posted this, with a recipe and pic of my friend's rice wine. It calls for 10 lbs of rice to be cooked and cooled, then tossed in a bucket, then add 13 pounds of water, so a little over a gallon and a half of water (He said to make sure it was good filtered water.) So... 1.3 lbs of water per pound of rice? Shouldn't be too hard to calculate at 8lbs per gallon of water.




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Sorry if I'm rambling. Vicodin, Flexeril, mead and rice wine are a nasty combination. I highly recommend it.
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Old 09-05-2013, 05:43 AM   #2794
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Way back on 3/23 on page 127, I posted this, with a recipe and pic of my friend's rice wine. It calls for 10 lbs of rice to be cooked and cooled, then tossed in a bucket, then add 13 pounds of water, so a little over a gallon and a half of water (He said to make sure it was good filtered water.) So... 1.3 lbs of water per pound of rice? Shouldn't be too hard to calculate at 8lbs per gallon of water.




http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f243/mak...ml#post5035040
Lots of about signs, as I'm rounding the numbers a bit for the sake of sanity. Ok, here goes the annoying math part.

One pound of dry rice should be ~453 grams. I weighed 1 cup of dry rice at 212 grams. So, ~2.13 cups per lb, based on my previous weighing of dry rice. That batch of red rice wine was 22.5 cups of dry rice, or ~10.56 lbs. It yielded ~4500 milliliters. That would be ~426 ml per lb of dry rice. 2 quarts of liquid is 1892.71ml. Therefore, I have the equivalent of ~4.44 lbs of rice in harvested wine. That would mean adding ~5.77 lbs of water, or ~0.65 gallons, or 2.6 quarts of water. To 2 quarts of red rice wine. That seems a little on the high side to me.

Hmm. I could take a gravity sample first, assume I'm at 15% ABV and estimate a dilution ratio so that the wine ferments dry with DADY in it. The DADY has an alcohol tolerance of 23%.

I'll have to think about this a bit.

EDIT: After doing the ridiculous amount of math, I realized that it still breaks down to a 1:1.3 ratio by volume...Huh.
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Old 09-05-2013, 06:01 AM   #2795
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Thanks.

...the wine should be heated up a little bit to kill off the remaining yeast.
It sounds like pasteurizing to kill all microbes.

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I think because of the higher sugar concentration. And the aging time should be more than 12 months.
This is what I have been using and it makes some outstanding rice wine. I think I'll have to hide some from myself and see how it ages.

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Just to share, in Chinese society, freshly brewed rice wine is normally consumed by woman after giving birth, cooked with chicken, black fungus and ginger. Contrary, aged wine or yellow wine is more commonly drank socially and with meal, just like red wine with steak, yellow wine blended very well with crab or stewed pork.
I did find a Chinese site that claimed it made women's breasts bigger. It really is a great drink.

If you can share, how is the fermenting done? As you've read, most on here have been cooking the rice, cooling it and mixing in the powdered yeast. But I and others have found references to adding water to the mixture. Do you have any information on that?
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Old 09-06-2013, 04:01 AM   #2796
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Hmm, I was going to dilute the red rice wine I had in my fridge for refermentation. The thing is, I don't think I need to. I took a gravity reading and it came out to 1.031 after temperature correction. That means that if it ferments to 1.0 I'm looking at an increase in the alcohol content of 4.1%. If we assume that the original rice wine had an ABV of 15-17% then the distillers yeast should have a high enough alcohol tolerance to consume the rest of the sugar without any extra water.

The distillers yeast is supposed to be alcohol tolerant up to 23%, though in practical terms it doesn't usually go over 20%. On the other hand, if it's already around 19%, it's not going to do much. I can always add water later though.

So, what I did instead was add 1/2 tsp of yeast nutrient, 1/4 tsp yeast energizer, and 1/2 tsp of dry distillers yeast. I mixed that in the the three quarts of leftover red rice wine I had in the fridge. I had another quart I didn't see shoved into the back of the fridge. We shall see how things go with it now.

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Old 09-06-2013, 04:39 AM   #2797
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Hmm, I was going to dilute the red rice wine I had in my fridge for refermentation. The thing is, I don't think I need to. I took a gravity reading and it came out to 1.031 after temperature correction. That means that if it ferments to 1.0 I'm looking at an increase in the alcohol content of 4.1%. If we assume that the original rice wine had an ABV of 15-17% then the distillers yeast should have a high enough alcohol tolerance to consume the rest of the sugar without any extra water.

The distillers yeast is supposed to be alcohol tolerant up to 23%, though in practical terms it doesn't usually go over 20%. On the other hand, if it's already around 19%, it's not going to do much. I can always add water later though.

So, what I did instead was add 1/2 tsp of yeast nutrient, 1/4 tsp yeast energizer, and 1/2 tsp of dry distillers yeast. I mixed that in the the three quarts of leftover red rice wine I had in the fridge. I had another quart I didn't see shoved into the back of the fridge. We shall see how things go with it now.
LG: was your rice wine all clear or did it have any visible rice solids in it? Did you make a yeast starter or just pitch it right in?

I've got a 2lb bag of Crosby Baker distillers yeast that I'm dying to break open and use.
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Old 09-06-2013, 04:49 AM   #2798
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LG: was your rice wine all clear or did it have any visible rice solids in it? Did you make a yeast starter or just pitch it right in?

I've got a 2lb bag of Crosby Baker distillers yeast that I'm dying to break open and use.
It was crystal clear, I just pitched it in. Everything was a little cold, so it will probably be a couple days before I know if it's doing anything.

EDIT: That's the same distillers yeast I've got. I've found that the only real care it needs is in the nutrients. Most yeasts can go skunky if they are short on nutrients. This one most certainly will. That's really it though. You can do a starter if you want, or rehydrate in hot water etc.. If you want to, but I haven't found that it makes much of a difference with this distillers yeast.
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Old 09-07-2013, 03:58 AM   #2799
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I wonder if there are names or titles for mixes when it comes to rice wine...

For example honey, water and yeast gets you mead, add fruit and you get a melomel, use grape juice and you get a pyment, add apple juice and you get a cyser. You see where I'm going...

What could we add to rice and yeast that would fabricate something new? Is this something already out there?

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Old 09-07-2013, 04:33 AM   #2800
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I wonder if there are names or titles for mixes when it comes to rice wine...

For example honey, water and yeast gets you mead, add fruit and you get a melomel, use grape juice and you get a pyment, add apple juice and you get a cyser. You see where I'm going...

What could we add to rice and yeast that would fabricate something new? Is this something already out there?
Most likely yes, but I can't pronounce most of the names...

It's always just a little bit funny to me to see brewers trying to find exactly the right obscure technical term to describe a process or product. I worked in tech support for a few years, and was actually specifically trained not to do this. If I got monitored on a call and did that, I'd get docked points for using "jargon".
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