Ss Brewing Technologies Giveaway!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Automated Brewing Forum > Unwinding wound up Auber
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 06-06-2012, 01:25 PM   #1
MalFet
/bɪər nərd/
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
MalFet's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NYC / Kathmandu
Posts: 8,209
Liked 1235 Times on 821 Posts
Likes Given: 564

Default Unwinding wound up Auber

Hello everyone,

Is there an easy and surefire way to reset the integral wind-up on an Auber 2362? I've got a switch between my SSR and my element, and of course anytime I've got the thing off for more than a moment the PID winds up and overshoots when I turn it back on.

I'm looking for the easiest way to reset the accumulated windup before I turn element back on, but I haven't been able to find a definitive answer on what will do it. Things I've heard mentioned include (in order of "easiness"):

1) Change the SV
2) Unplug the probe
3) Switch to manual mode and back
4) Power cycle the whole system

Anyone know which of these will and which of these won't do the job?

-MalFet

__________________

"Be excellent to each other." -Benjamin Franklin

MalFet is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-06-2012, 04:58 PM   #2
carlisle_bob
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Carlisle, PA
Posts: 1,205
Liked 27 Times on 26 Posts

Default

Hi

Ummm, errrr ...

Why switch off the element?

Bob

__________________
carlisle_bob is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-06-2012, 05:05 PM   #3
Rbeckett
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Rbeckett's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Bronson, Fl
Posts: 986
Liked 63 Times on 46 Posts
Likes Given: 29

Default

Help me out here, please. Can you explain what exactly wind up is and what causes and negates it? I am still an electronics noob and have seen a couple of mentions of wind up but dont understand the concept from a practical stand point. Any light you could shed would be great!!! I am always increasing my knowledge and havent learned this yet. Thanks!!!!
Wheelchair Bob

__________________

What do you mean "no Kidneys"???, WTF now I gotta drink less beer...
Join the Automation sub forum in Electric brewing for a discussion of components and control systems. I did!!!!

Rbeckett is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-06-2012, 05:11 PM   #4
MalFet
/bɪər nərd/
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
MalFet's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NYC / Kathmandu
Posts: 8,209
Liked 1235 Times on 821 Posts
Likes Given: 564

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlisle_bob View Post
Hi

Ummm, errrr ...

Why switch off the element?

Bob
To stop applying heat to the system, mostly

This is for a RIMS tube on a batch sparge system. As nice as burning my element out when draining sounds, I think I'll stick to not doing that for now.
__________________

"Be excellent to each other." -Benjamin Franklin

MalFet is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-06-2012, 05:34 PM   #5
MalFet
/bɪər nərd/
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
MalFet's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NYC / Kathmandu
Posts: 8,209
Liked 1235 Times on 821 Posts
Likes Given: 564

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbeckett View Post
Help me out here, please. Can you explain what exactly wind up is and what causes and negates it? I am still an electronics noob and have seen a couple of mentions of wind up but dont understand the concept from a practical stand point. Any light you could shed would be great!!! I am always increasing my knowledge and havent learned this yet. Thanks!!!!
Wheelchair Bob
The integral component of a PID adjusts power applied to the system in response to how long the measured value has been away from the set value. If you disconnect the heat source from the PID (as one might need to do), the PID will keep ramping up its output because it's not seeing a response.

Imagine trying open door that someone is blocking on the other side. You push harder and harder and harder when the thing doesn't budge, and then if the door suddenly gets unblocked you go barreling through the thing head over heels.
__________________

"Be excellent to each other." -Benjamin Franklin

MalFet is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-06-2012, 10:10 PM   #6
Rbeckett
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Rbeckett's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Bronson, Fl
Posts: 986
Liked 63 Times on 46 Posts
Likes Given: 29

Default

Thanks a bunch. And you explained it in a way that makes great sense to me too. Have a great day.
Bob

__________________

What do you mean "no Kidneys"???, WTF now I gotta drink less beer...
Join the Automation sub forum in Electric brewing for a discussion of components and control systems. I did!!!!

Rbeckett is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-06-2012, 10:40 PM   #7
carlisle_bob
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Carlisle, PA
Posts: 1,205
Liked 27 Times on 26 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MalFet View Post
To stop applying heat to the system, mostly

This is for a RIMS tube on a batch sparge system. As nice as burning my element out when draining sounds, I think I'll stick to not doing that for now.
Hi

Ok, if you shut things down while you are draining the system, you are about to re-load the system with cold water. If so, the answer is to restart the controller.

Bob
__________________
carlisle_bob is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-06-2012, 11:38 PM   #8
MalFet
/bɪər nərd/
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
MalFet's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NYC / Kathmandu
Posts: 8,209
Liked 1235 Times on 821 Posts
Likes Given: 564

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlisle_bob View Post
Hi

Ok, if you shut things down while you are draining the system, you are about to re-load the system with cold water. If so, the answer is to restart the controller.

Bob
But I'm not reloading the system with cold water.

As I said, I'm looking for information on what does and doesn't reset the integral accumulation on Auber controllers. If anyone knows, I would be much obliged.
__________________

"Be excellent to each other." -Benjamin Franklin

MalFet is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-06-2012, 11:45 PM   #9
carlisle_bob
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Carlisle, PA
Posts: 1,205
Liked 27 Times on 26 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MalFet View Post
But I'm not reloading the system with cold water.

As I said, I'm looking for information on what does and doesn't reset the integral accumulation on Auber controllers. If anyone knows, I would be much obliged.
Hi

Power cycling the controller reset it.

If you dump in cold water, the load has changed and the state of the PID is not useful. Reseting is your best bet in this case.

Bob
__________________
carlisle_bob is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-06-2012, 11:52 PM   #10
MalFet
/bɪər nərd/
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
MalFet's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NYC / Kathmandu
Posts: 8,209
Liked 1235 Times on 821 Posts
Likes Given: 564

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlisle_bob View Post
Hi

Power cycling the controller reset it.

If you dump in cold water, the load has changed and the state of the PID is not useful. Reseting is your best bet in this case.

Bob
So you are saying that, of the four things I listed, you know that only (4) will actually reset the algorithm state? Switching to manual mode and back, for example, will not do this?
__________________

"Be excellent to each other." -Benjamin Franklin

MalFet is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools