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Old 06-30-2012, 12:21 PM   #41
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Yup, got proto boards of all sizes and hole counts. I can also make PCB's here but was looking for something a little different that could be mofified as circuits and components change and improve. I was kind of hoping to build a backwards and forward compatible easilly modified system to test several theories and circuit designs. I was tryng to integrate the PID's into the control loop and base some of the logic decisions from input recieved from them in addition to other data within the system. I was also going to add touch screen control and try some advanced algorythms for controlling the entire brew cycle from beginning (ordering grain) to end (drinking the chilled, carbed product). I have been studying electronics for just over two years at home and have been itching to try a very complex application of all I am learning as a self directed "Final Exam" of sorts. The "test" includes engineering, assembly, coding, logic, analogue, pneumatics and reverse osmosis and systems integration. If it fails to meet my expectations, then I just have more learning and more studying to do, the learning curve and cycle are truly never ending in my current situation.
Wheelchair Bob

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Old 06-30-2012, 01:38 PM   #42
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Hi

Doing anything complex with a bunch of logic gates and wire wrap is going to be a major chore. Been there done that, to much time spent on stupid errors.

Grab one of the FPGA boards off of eBay and run the free programming software to set it up. That lets you experiment like crazy and there's no wires to move around. You can do a dozen experiments a day *and* you have a schematic to go with every one of them. You'll spend a week or more doing any one of them by wire wrap.

Also - look at the money you'll save on bench stock...

Bob

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Old 06-30-2012, 08:24 PM   #43
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Good point! Never even considered that. I was looking for an easier way than making boards and point to point looked relatively simple, but as you say all of the gates and logic circuits will definately create a birds nest to beat the band. I'll keep tinkering and look at what I already have and possibly veer off in a new direction. I had hoped to employ some circuit building skills, but it appears the complexity of this particular project may preclude that till another day. Thanks.
WCB

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Old 07-02-2012, 10:48 AM   #44
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CB,
Take a look at this developement kit for FPGA's. Apparently there IS a Plethora of available options and pin counts. This set up was recomended along with the Pickit 3 developement board for initial studies into the FPGA system. Here is a copy of the link that was referenced and recomended: http://www.altera.com/products/devkits/altera/kit-cyc2-2C20N.html
Is this wgat you were refering to and recomending? Kinda pricey, but available seperately pretty inexpensively.
Thanks!!!
WCB

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Old 07-02-2012, 09:15 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbeckett View Post
CB,
Take a look at this developement kit for FPGA's. Apparently there IS a Plethora of available options and pin counts. This set up was recomended along with the Pickit 3 developement board for initial studies into the FPGA system. Here is a copy of the link that was referenced and recomended: http://www.altera.com/products/devkits/altera/kit-cyc2-2C20N.html
Is this wgat you were refering to and recomending? Kinda pricey, but available seperately pretty inexpensively.
Thanks!!!
WCB
Hi

Cyclone II is a bit old these days. They are on the IV series at the moment. For what you are trying to do - any series will do fine. The nice thing about the older kits - you can find them *CHEAP* on eBay. No need to pay Altera's fancy prices. They all work the same way, the labs all run, and they look like the same boards.


... they are on the V series now, we are on the IV's at work...

Bob
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Old 07-12-2012, 12:19 PM   #46
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CB,
As promised, I have been experimenting with the 30Ga wire wrap tools from Radio Shack. I have had excelent results so far. Once I got the correct stripped length I end up with 1-1.5 turns of insulated and 7-8 turns of non imsulated wire on each post. I have been using both of the wrapping tools that came, the others are on back order and should arrive this week. I would really like to find some 22 Ga wrapping tools too. I think that the 30Ga is going to be too small for any signifigant loads so I would prefer to go to the 22 Ga in the beginning. I'm still looking for a vendor who sells them in that size. I also found a spring loaded semi automatic wrapping gun for a reasonable price, but have decided to hold off till I find 22 Ga tips and dies for interconnect and lead out wiring. So far no issues with breaking the wires or failing to complete a wrap sequence. I got sloppy and did make a few that looked loose, but were still pretty tight on the posts. I think soldering will eliminate any possibility of poor connections too. Thanks for the help and guidance. I am still learning something new everyday.
Wheelchair Bob

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Old 07-13-2012, 12:27 PM   #47
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Hi

Don't solder anything. The great thing about wire wrap is being able to rip off the wires when you change your mind. You loose that when you solder it all up. Properly done, the stuff will last longer than any of us need it to.

You can easily check your technique by trying to pull a few wraps apart. It should not be easy to do, and you should have a bit of a weld at each corner of the post the wire is wrapped on. With 30 gauge it's not as easy to see / feel as with larger gauge. It's those little welds that give you a "gas tight" connection and keep things from oxidizing.

Bob

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Old 07-13-2012, 04:45 PM   #48
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CB,
What do you do to eliminate or minimize the looseness of components going through the board? I was using a few TO 92 3906's for test wraps and they appear to be tightly wrapped, but the component still moves unaceptably within the through hole on the board. Should the components be soldered to the board first then wrapped with the remaining leg? That was the reason I was considering soldering the entire unit once tested and working properly. Ideas, solutions?
WCB

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Old 07-14-2012, 01:36 PM   #49
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Hi

To do a proper wire wrap, you need a square post with well defined corners on it. The only way to get enough pressure to do a coldweld is to have that edge and good tension on the wire.

Classic solutions to your problem:

1) solder in the bypass parts in a normal pcb fashion (yes it's a board laid out to do that).

2) Mount the leaded parts on wire wrap posts. More or less it's a single pin or double pin IC socket topped with a post rather than a socket.

3) Mount the leaded parts in wire wrap cups. Same idea as 2, only the lead drops into a cup and solders rather than wraps around a post.

4) Solder wire wrap wire to the stuff and then wrap it to the IC's. Don't even bother to wrap the soldered end.

5) Use DIP packaged component arrays for the discrete parts or DIP packaged transistor arrays.

Unless it was some sort of field repair, number 4 above was not very common. I haven't seen the "stuff" to do 2 or 3 above for a lot of years. 1 and 5 were by far the most common approaches. The parts to do 5 are still out there.

Bob

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Old 07-15-2012, 08:30 PM   #50
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Thanks CB. I was kind of figuring that I had to be missing prts or some concept because the connections all work, but the components were loose on the board and I was sure that would lead to wire fatigue and breakage pretty quickly. I am going to try to solder them in place on the perf boards, then do the point to point wrapping on the remaining post from the through hole lead. When I get a board built I will try to get a good close up pic so you can have a look at my technique.
Wheelchair Bob

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