Happy HolidaySs Giveaway - Last Sponsor Giveaway of the Year!

Come Enter the BrewDeals/FastFerment Giveaway!


Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Automated Brewing Forum > New Automated Brew Rig
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 06-23-2013, 10:18 PM   #21
Gripped
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: manhattan, KS
Posts: 24
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cank View Post
Very nice! Love how you got it down to 4 automated valves.
I',m in the process of figuring out my flow control. Can you explain how yours is going to work? Are you using bottom drains in all three vessels? Will the pump prime coming from the plate chiller? When the Wort is cool, will you just take that second hose off the BK and put it in the fermenter?
I have two additional solenoid valves that control water into the HLT and through the plate chiller. I will post up the progress once it is plumbed.

All three vessels have bottom drains, the HLT and Boil kettle have offset drains so I can create a whirlpool without pulling out too much of the cold break into the fermentor. The mash tun has a center drain under the false bottom.

I hope the pump will prime from the boil kettle, I will find out when I do the first wet test of the system.

When the wort is cool I will just break the tri clamp connection and move it into the fermentor. Very insightful questions, looks like you understand the flow of the system pretty well.
__________________
Gripped is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-23-2013, 10:25 PM   #22
mattd2
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Papamoa, New Zealand
Posts: 3,579
Liked 269 Times on 214 Posts
Likes Given: 46

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PLOVE View Post
Will you be able to feather the valves? Pretty sure the Dout on the BCS are just +12V/0V. IMHO being able to control flow through a HERMS is pretty important during recirculation unless you want a stuck mash. Curious how you're dealing with this. . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gripped View Post
Currently I have a stainless hand valve to control flow for sparging. You are correct the digital outputs on the BCS are on/off and would require a float switch or flow monitor for control. Possibly in the future.
Have you thought about pump motor control, automating a PWM for the pump to control the flow instead of a manual valve?
Since you are doing something with the Arduino for flow/volume sensing I though this could be added into that module with a switch for full power or sparging rate.
mattd2 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-23-2013, 10:34 PM   #23
Gripped
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: manhattan, KS
Posts: 24
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattd2 View Post
Have you thought about pump motor control, automating a PWM for the pump to control the flow instead of a manual valve?
Since you are doing something with the Arduino for flow/volume sensing I though this could be added into that module with a switch for full power or sparging rate.
That is something that is great about Arduino, PWM is something I've been thinking about utilizing for flow control. I have a ways to go to figure out how to integrate the Arduino with the BCS. The BCS allows for digital inputs but no analog inputs. I'm not sure how to make this happen.
__________________
Gripped is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-23-2013, 10:42 PM   #24
mattd2
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Papamoa, New Zealand
Posts: 3,579
Liked 269 Times on 214 Posts
Likes Given: 46

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gripped View Post
That is something that is great about Arduino, PWM is something I've been thinking about utilizing for flow control. I have a ways to go to figure out how to integrate the Arduino with the BCS. The BCS allows for digital inputs but no analog inputs. I'm not sure how to make this happen.
In terms of the flow control it would be "relatively" simple if you were using the Arduino for 2 speed control - Digital output from BCS to Arduino to signal "sparge mode" - Arduino reduces the PWM to a set point (or if getting flash a set flowrate with feedback from the flowmeter).
How are you intergrating the volume measurement back into the BCS, that would be what I would struggle with.

I have a chopper Router speed controller that I bought off ebay that I want to trial PWM my pump next brewday. At the moment my pump is very oversized since the supplier messed up and to compensate for being out of stock they offered to send me the next pump up, which ended up with going from a 40W to a 80W pump! Throtling with a ball valve has my valve almost shut to get a slow flow, PWM might give me the flexibility I need as when the motor slows down the pump will slow exponetially. Hopefully going do to 80% should get me sparging well.
mattd2 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-24-2013, 12:32 AM   #25
Gripped
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: manhattan, KS
Posts: 24
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattd2 View Post
In terms of the flow control it would be "relatively" simple if you were using the Arduino for 2 speed control - Digital output from BCS to Arduino to signal "sparge mode" - Arduino reduces the PWM to a set point (or if getting flash a set flowrate with feedback from the flowmeter).
How are you intergrating the volume measurement back into the BCS, that would be what I would struggle with.

I have a chopper Router speed controller that I bought off ebay that I want to trial PWM my pump next brewday. At the moment my pump is very oversized since the supplier messed up and to compensate for being out of stock they offered to send me the next pump up, which ended up with going from a 40W to a 80W pump! Throtling with a ball valve has my valve almost shut to get a slow flow, PWM might give me the flexibility I need as when the motor slows down the pump will slow exponetially. Hopefully going do to 80% should get me sparging well.
I don't have the volume control integrated yet. I have tried connecting the BCS to the Arduino through a digital input but it is still on/off control. I would prefer if I could control pump output via voltage control, however I am not sure it is possible. That is one of the drawbacks of using BCS, no PWM input for volume control. I considered using cheap load cells but that is quite a ways down the road. The flow meter could utilize a digital output to determine flow rate, but its going to take a bit of programming that I haven't even begun to think about. I think that that ball valve throttling is ideal however the valves I have do not support positional control and are 12v open and 0v closed.
__________________
Gripped is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-24-2013, 09:48 PM   #26
Dawai
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 134
Liked 24 Times on 19 Posts
Likes Given: 5

Default

every dc motor "can be a servo" if you just add a digital encoder feedback to the motor shaft. I made a 1/2 hp 90 volt motor into a servo here. Several window motors from autos.. (toys). You don't need a quadrature since "direction of pump is known by polarity". It could be a magnet and a hall effect sensor.

Gecko, or "ardino cpu" (spelling) could do pulse feedback-motor rpm control.

(neat looking fermenter) Some days I can see to tig weld, other days just piss me off. I worked in my shop for 2 hours today.

__________________

Tunnel Hill Ga. I'm a Old biker/construction worker, wore out, tired, relaxing with a homebrew and loving it. Ain't nothing like watching the sun come up over Fort Mountain.

Dawai is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-25-2013, 01:00 AM   #27
Gripped
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: manhattan, KS
Posts: 24
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawai View Post
every dc motor "can be a servo" if you just add a digital encoder feedback to the motor shaft. I made a 1/2 hp 90 volt motor into a servo here. Several window motors from autos.. (toys). You don't need a quadrature since "direction of pump is known by polarity". It could be a magnet and a hall effect sensor.

Gecko, or "ardino cpu" (spelling) could do pulse feedback-motor rpm control.

(neat looking fermenter) Some days I can see to tig weld, other days just piss me off. I worked in my shop for 2 hours today.
Some of that is far over my head. I know that the flow sensor I am using is in essence a hall effect senor measuring rpm of the impeller. The pumps I am using are 115v AC motors with a mag drive impeller head. Since the pump is magnetic driven I believe you can restrict outflow. I don't know if it is possible to utilize a frequency drive on a single phase motor like these?

The fermentor is another project for later, something I found from a stainless scrap dealer who deals in food processing equipment. Most of the raw materials used in this build were purchased by the lb as scrap.

Glad to hear that you are getting some time in working in your shop. This project has taken quite a while as motivation ebbs and flows at times.
__________________
Gripped is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-25-2013, 06:18 AM   #28
n240sxguy
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Calvert City, KY
Posts: 796
Liked 105 Times on 75 Posts

Default

There is such a thing as a single phase frequency drive, but I think it just simulates three phase to the motor. I don't believe there is such a thing for a single phase motor. If you had the 240v single phase, maybe there's some voodoo there to make it work. As far as restricting flow with some sort of control valve; what options do you have? I work in a chemical plant, so I see all kinds of control valves, but I don't know what is available to home brewers. If the control board only does digital outputs, maybe you could use parallel solenoid valves of different sizes. Kind of a high/low speed flow. Just an idea.

__________________
n240sxguy is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-25-2013, 01:40 PM   #29
clearwaterbrewer
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Clearwater, FL
Posts: 263
Liked 9 Times on 9 Posts
Likes Given: 31

Default

Nice setup... stay with controlling flow by restricting output, centrifugal pumps work best that way, if you have a positive displacement pump, such as a flexible impeller pump, then you use speed control... I suggest jogging the valve by removing the constant power and only adding power in short pulses to move it either way.. use low-pressure switches like those on a hot tub rims heater tube to detect flow... are you on the BCS forum? oh, just looked and saw your post there... again, nice setup!

__________________
clearwaterbrewer is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-25-2013, 04:31 PM   #30
fc36
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 344
Liked 19 Times on 14 Posts
Likes Given: 27

Default

Subbed, this is exactly what I'd like to build in the very near future. I especially love the weld-in tippy dump on your tun. How do you keep a small amount of grain from building up at the lip or do you just not care at that point and go in the old-fashioned way with a scoop (aka hand) and clean it out manually like all the poorsies out there?

__________________
fc36 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Automated Brew Sculpture RDavis Brew Stands 1 04-05-2013 09:25 PM
Automated brew pre-project help KaYs3r Brew Stands 0 11-30-2012 12:25 PM
Automated brew systems in Colorado? chip82 Automated Brewing Forum 4 10-06-2012 08:17 PM
automated brew system help Cantaloupe Brew Stands 14 06-22-2011 06:09 AM
Fully Automated Brew Rig itsme6582 Brew Stands 10 03-29-2011 08:27 PM



Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS