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Old 05-08-2012, 03:03 PM   #1
justcopen
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Default Brewtroller build valves and pump questions?

It is so pretty and clean in here I hate to post something but hear it goes.

I am right in the middle of building my control panel and I am trying to get my head around valves and pumps. Right now I am thinking with the cost of DC pumps I would be better off with running 3 pumps and I could cut my valves in half.

I have seen the Thread on if DC pumps and if they are food safe and I have one in my motor home that came factory so that leads me they are.

Pros: flow control with the pump, less wiring, easer cleaning, cheaper, simple?
Cons: ?????

This is what I have been looking at.
http://www.sun-pump.com/
http://greatbreweh.com/Beer_Pump.html
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/sing...ed-rig-204705/
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/look...-input-317600/

Any input or thoughts is appreciated

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Old 05-08-2012, 04:11 PM   #2
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What I didn't see in those two pump links in the amperage rating of the pump. I doubt you're running it directly from the Brewtroller output so you're still going to have a relay involved for each pump.

So I'm not sure that you're saving wiring as much as you'll be using 12v DC instead of 120v AC. Depending on the amperage requirements and how many you're running at once, it could require a good size 12v power supply.

The "wall wort" type power supplies they provide don't seem like they would help you much, I don't see an advantage to putting a 120v outlet on a relay and then using it to power the wall wort.

Pumps do look cheaper and interesting though; I haven't seen them before. If I didn't have two March pumps already I would possibly investigate.

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Old 05-08-2012, 06:01 PM   #3
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I got a pair of the 3 gal/min pumps that I'm going to be testing at some point.
I see them as possible replacements for HLT and MLT circulation.

My March and Little Giant pumps are just too much pump for these tasks; they spend most of the brew at 1/4 throttle or less.

I'm also interested in trying the Brewtroller's PWM output for the MLT pump to automate my fly sparge.

The thing that concerns me about these pumps it that the input has some restriction in the pump head; it's some bracing for the pump shaft I think, that I could certainly see leading to a clog if you got some grain in the pump.

We shall see.

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Old 05-08-2012, 07:01 PM   #4
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Since these are DC pumps, would running at 7vdc slow down the flow compared to 12vdc. I'm just using the same thought at I do with dc fans. Lower voltage = lower speed.

Also in regards to running off brewtroller, it is my understanding the BT switches the ground. Could you not run the + to the PSU and connect - to BT to allow it switch w/o relay.

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Old 05-08-2012, 07:13 PM   #5
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Normally, you don't want to lower the voltage. You want to change how long the pump is on or off. That's all PWM is, you're essentially turning the pump on and off really fast to adjust the flow rate. There are also plenty of simple add-on boards on Ebay that have a knob that would allow you to do the same thing. I think shushikiary from the Brewtroller forums is using 1 or more of these boards (slightly modified) with the Brewtroller.

You MAY be able to run the pump straight from the Brewtroller, but I'm not sure if that might exceed the current it's rated for. I like to use relays for everything so all my switches and logic are low voltage and low current. All the high voltage and high current lives on the other side of the relay.

Also, be careful which version of the Brewtroller you have. The current 4.X is switched ground. The BX1 (which I have) is switched +12V. I think the upcoming DX1 is also going to be +12 switched.

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Old 05-08-2012, 07:20 PM   #6
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I have a 300 watt power supply out of a computer and it should run a total of 25 amps so it should run ever thing I think?? The one site for sun pumps shows 12 to 24 volt DC @ 1.2 Amps. To keep thing simple I was thinking of controlling them through the brewtroller 16 relay board I have and run a PWM DC Motor Speed Controller w/ Knob mounted though the front. So a turn of the knob for fly or circulation.

http://www.suntekstore.com/goods.php...tm_source=gbus

Wolfman post about brewtroller having pwm controller built in? That would be nice but I am not smart enough to figure the programing for that. something I need to read on. Programing is my down fall I really don't understand it.

Wolfman if you could please send some info back on your test I would like to hear if you have a problem with them clogging or is wort is too much for the pumps.

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Old 05-10-2012, 03:56 PM   #7
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Wolfman I can see in the programing where you can run run a pump off of the steam output. If you are running two pump can it be programed to run off of the MLT also for fly sparge??

// This #define enables the feeding of the flow rate calcs based on the pressure sensors to be fed into the
// PID code to control a pump for fly sparge to get a desired flow rate. Note that the PWM output used to
// control the pump takes over the steam output, and thus the steam output cannot be used for steam.

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Old 05-10-2012, 05:15 PM   #8
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I haven't had a chance to try any of this yet, but my understanding is that the MLT pump can be flow rate controlled through PWM, but the HLT pump will only be pulsed for a set amount. I think the default amount is 1 quart.
So as the MLT dispenses a quart of wort into your kettle, the HLT will pulse another quart of liquor onto the grain.
This also requires that you have volume measurement hardware set up, which the controller uses to calculate your flow rate.
So, yes, you can get a sort of hybrid automated fly sparge going.

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Old 05-12-2012, 06:09 PM   #9
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I have anther question for you Wolfman. What pumps do you have and what size motor is on it? or have many amps does it take to run?

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Old 05-15-2012, 06:35 PM   #10
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another dc pump but this one looks to have low gpm 1.8

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC12V-108GPH...item231cbb6443

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