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Old 06-06-2013, 11:56 AM   #1
disney7
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Default Automating BG14 burner on propane

I tried this over on the DIY forum but didn't have much luck. This might have been the better place to post it.

I currently have a brew stand (which I built) that uses the large BG14 banjo burners. They use a 0-30 PSI adjustable regulator connected to a 20 lb propane tank as a fuel source.

I'd like to look into safely automating a burner.

I am familiar with the various PID controllers (MyPin, Auber, etc.) that are often discussed here. I am not very familiar with gas automation.

So, I have read all I can find and it appears that I am using what is considered "high pressure" propane. It also appears that it is not practical to try to automate a high pressure system. Is this correct?

So, can I buy a different regulator and drill out the burner jets to convert it to low pressure?

If that is possible, can anyone point me at a good source for gas valves that have a thermocouple (to stop gas flow if the burner/pilot blows out) and are capable of lighting themselves (they have an igniter)?

Thanks for any info or pointers on this. I have to run off of standard 20 lb propane tanks as I don't have propane/natural gas at the house. What I'd like to do is automate my HLT.

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Old 06-06-2013, 12:44 PM   #2
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I'm in the same boat as you with what sounds like the same setup, hopefully you will find out more.

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Old 06-06-2013, 03:47 PM   #3
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After a few minutes of digging I found this page for the BrewTrollers, it seems like what I need, maybe it would work for you.
https://www.oscsys.com/projects/brew...n/direct-fired

Direct Fired
You are here1.Projects
2.» BrewTroller
3.» System Design
The diagram below shows a Direct Fired, 3-Vessel system controlled by the Opentroller DX1 using Honeywell Continuous Pilot Valves. Intermittent Pilot Control Modules are also available but require extra attention to ensure noise generated by the ignition circuit does not interfere with the function of the rest of the control system.



The diagram below shows a possible plumbing configuration for a single-tier, two-pump direct fired system. With seven valves, two pumps and the heat and alarm outputs shown in the diagram above, this configuration uses 13 of the Opentroller DX1's 14 available outputs.


•All valves require a constant 12V DC supply. A terminal block is used to simplify wiring. Each valve is directly controlled from an output on the DX1 without requiring a relay.
•Chilling is accomplished in this system using a permanently mounted immersion chiller.
•A side input to the kettle is used for Sparge Out as well as for whirlpool during chilling.
This system design would use the OpenTroller DX1\RIMS or Direct Fired hardware profile with BrewTroller 2.5. Output assignments for the various Hardware Profiles is detailed in KB1001886: BrewTroller 2.x HWProfile Assignments.

Design Elements
•OpenTroller DX1 5A DIN Core Package
•35MM DIN Rail (12") Qty 2
•M12 3-Pin Female Panel Mount with Cable
•M12 3-Pin Extension Cable (2') Qty 2
•M12 3-Pin Extension Cable (6') Qty 1
•M12 3-Pin T-Connector Splitter Qty 4
•(Consider using 1-Wire Temperature Probe (4") Qty 1 to control Mash Heat based on Mash Tun outlet temperature and using 8" Probe listed below to monitor internal Mash temperature)
•1-Wire Temperature Probe (8") Qty 3
•Quad Relay Board Qty 2(Also consider using: DIN Mount DPDT Relay Module Qty 5)
•Flashing Buzzer
•Panel Mount USB Adapter B to B
•Panel Mount USB Faceplate
•1/2" NPT 2-Way Stainless Motorized Ball Valve (12V) Qty 7
•(Consider using: 1/2" 3-Way Motorized Ball Valve (SPST) Qty 1 in place of two 2-Way valves on kettle exit. Default flow for 3-Way would be plumbed to whirlpool and when activated wort would be directed to Fermentor. This configuration when used with boil recirculation prevents non-sanitized wort in plumbing fittings. Only the fermentor output port of the 3-Way valve will require chemical sanitation.)
•12 Position Barrier Block
•Gas valves also required but not available from OSCSYS at this time

direct-20fired-20plumb.jpg   directfired_0.jpg  
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Old 06-06-2013, 10:38 PM   #4
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I believe that those valves can't handle the high gas pressure required to fire high pressure burners. I have the same valves, and I am using them with low pressure banjo burners.

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Old 06-07-2013, 03:41 PM   #5
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No they can't you would just need to put a regulator that drops the pressure to 11" WC or lower.

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Old 06-07-2013, 04:32 PM   #6
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also don't try to drill out the orifices. Just purchase the low pressure ones from williams brewing
http://www.williamsbrewing.com/HURRICANE-BURNER-LPG-GAS-VALVE-P2690C87.aspx

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Old 06-07-2013, 04:34 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyirishman34 View Post
No they can't you would just need to put a regulator that drops the pressure to 11" WC or lower.
I don't think it is quite that simple. Dropping the pressure to 11" WC would defeat the purpose of using high pressure burners in the first place. Also, I believe the jet is different for high pressure as opposed to low pressure burners. Here is a link to another thread that has a big discussion of this topic.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/unde...ropane-157415/
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Old 06-07-2013, 04:39 PM   #8
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Yes you have to change the orifice also to get the correct amount of gas into the burner. The Banjo burners can be used with high or low pressure gas. If you look at the current orifice in the burner it has a really small hole in it. The low pressure orifice will have a large hole to allow more flow threw the orifice into the burner. Not hard at all.

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Old 06-07-2013, 04:39 PM   #9
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Well, here is what I have learned so far:

1) I will need to convert my burners to 11" WC low pressure setups by using a new orifice valve and a new regulator.

2) Kladue posted somewhere on here (can't find the post now) that the pilotless direct ignition type setups can be unreliable due to differences in burners. So, that leave me with wanting to do a standing pilot that has its own igniter. I don't want to have to light the pilot manually and I want it to be able to relight itself if blown out.

Now, I just need to determine what the best parts to use are. To make the install as neat as possible, I'd like to find a gas valve with a built in igniter controller (do these exist?).

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Old 06-07-2013, 04:47 PM   #10
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What you want is an Intermittent pilot valve. The igniter box is normally separate from the valve. The valve sends a signal to the box to light the pilot. once the igniter box senses a flame it tells the valve it is ok to open. Honeywell makes pretty good versions of these you just need to calculate what your BTUs are going to be and buy the correct valve. Also make sure that it is propane compatible.

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