Happy HolidaySs Giveaway - Winners Re-Re-Re-Re-Drawn - 24 hours to Claim!

Get your HBT Growlers, Shirts and Membership before the Rush!


Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Automated Brewing Forum > All my recent (Brewtroller) beer has sucked
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 12-13-2012, 07:15 PM   #1
Mpez
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Salt Lake City
Posts: 154
Liked 3 Times on 3 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default All my recent (Brewtroller) beer has sucked

Late this summer I upgraded my brewing system to run on the Brewtroller DX1. Since then all of the beer I have made has been below par. Basically ever batch has been plagued with a tannin wine like flavor. At first I thought it was due to an infection, but I feel like I have ruled that out.

The flavors seem consistent with what I have read about either over sparging, or allowing the mash or mash out temps to get too hot. However my process has not changed at all. I mash in , and do one single batch sparge. So it leads me to believe that the problem is temperature based. During my last brew session I used 4 different temperature reading devices. The brewtroller was anywhere from 5-10 degrees under the other temp probes.

Has anyone had any issues similar to this? Has anyone tried calibrating their 1 wire temp probes?

This weekend I plan on brewing with my old PID and will go from there.

__________________
Mpez is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-13-2012, 07:59 PM   #2
Shockerengr
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 442
Liked 20 Times on 17 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Not knowing what your setup is, I'd suggest running water through a cycle (to discount temp stratification) and compare the temp probe to known thermometers. If it is off, the probe should be replaced since they are calibrated at the wafer level when produced.

__________________
Shockerengr is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-13-2012, 08:12 PM   #3
helibrewer
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
helibrewer's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 3,564
Liked 260 Times on 226 Posts
Likes Given: 70

Default

I have seen differences of up to a couple degrees (C) between some of my DS18B20's. I now compare them all to my calibrated digital thermometer and note the appropriate correction factor or just discard the "bad" sensor.

__________________
Something is always fermenting....
"It's Bahl Hornin'"

Primary:
Brite Tank/Lagering:
Kegged: Sour Saison, Pale Ale, Aggie Ale
Bottled: Belgian Quad (Grand Reserve), Derangement (Belgian Dark Strong)
On Deck: Firestone DBA, De Koninck Blonde
My Site: www.restlesscellars.com
helibrewer is online now
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-13-2012, 09:24 PM   #4
Vesku
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Lievala, Kuusumu
Posts: 108
Liked 20 Times on 14 Posts
Likes Given: 9

Default

I don't know anything about Brewtroller but ...

I had same issues on my own system, my problems were related with the placement of mash-temperature sensor. It was in a thermowell and that created a huge lag in the mash temperature reading that my controller received -> way too hot mash temps especially during the mash out. My sensor is now on the top layer of the mash, straight in the grains, no thermowell, just the sensor in a thin ss-capsule. No more issues.

I've bought over 20 ds18b20's and they all have been very accurate and super linear. Maybe I've been lucky. They all have been +- 0.2C from each other. I calibrate them simple by adding or reducing the amount needed on my Arduino sketch.

__________________
Vesku is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-13-2012, 09:32 PM   #5
Mpez
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Salt Lake City
Posts: 154
Liked 3 Times on 3 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesku View Post
I don't know anything about Brewtroller but ...

I had same issues on my own system, my problems were related with the placement of mash-temperature sensor. It was in a thermowell and that created a huge lag in the mash temperature reading that my controller received -> way too hot mash temps especially during the mash out. My sensor is now on the top layer of the mash, straight in the grains, no thermowell, just the sensor in a thin ss-capsule. No more issues.
Thanks for the reply. I have been wondering about this. I use a thermowell which is attached to ball valve of my kettles drain. I was thinking of moving it to my sparge arm, but maybe I will look into something more like you are doing. No thermowell.
__________________
Mpez is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-13-2012, 09:41 PM   #6
Vesku
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Lievala, Kuusumu
Posts: 108
Liked 20 Times on 14 Posts
Likes Given: 9

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpez View Post
Thanks for the reply. I have been wondering about this. I use a thermowell which is attached to ball valve of my kettles drain. I was thinking of moving it to my sparge arm, but maybe I will look into something more like you are doing. No thermowell.
That's possible the worst place for a sensor. The valve acts like a heat sink and cools the sensor below the actual temperature (laminar flows, turbulence etc.). I've done a lot of testing and it seems to be almost impossible to measure flowing liquids. Check out this thread http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/herm...ml#post4674359
__________________
Vesku is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-14-2012, 06:36 AM   #7
jpalarchio
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Holly, MI
Posts: 562
Liked 50 Times on 41 Posts
Likes Given: 11

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpez View Post
Thanks for the reply. I have been wondering about this. I use a thermowell which is attached to ball valve of my kettles drain. I was thinking of moving it to my sparge arm, but maybe I will look into something more like you are doing. No thermowell.
If this is on your mash tun, I think you'd find a huge variance between this temp and one in the middle of the mash tun.

I use a 20 gallon Blichmann and have two 12" probes (that I average) at about the 1/3 and 2/3 mark.

One of the best things I did was build an "aux" probe that I keep connected on a long cable and can use for ad hoc temperature checking throughout the session.
__________________
jpalarchio is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-14-2012, 02:29 PM   #8
schaez
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 131
Liked 3 Times on 2 Posts

Default

My system is HERMS with the temperature measured at the return to the mash tun. I initially had a tee with a thermowell and I saw a 4 degF lower temperature and a lot of latency. I took account for this by setting my mash temp 4 degF lower and setting the firmware options to say there is a 4 degF temp loss between the HLT and MT. I recently switched to a compression fitting and a new probe with a SS end and it now measure spot on with my thermapen.
I don't think my beer would suffer if I didn't account for the temperature offset. I typically mash at 150-152 degF so my FG would just be slightly higher.

__________________

Kegged - Apfelwein, Saison, Imperial Irish Red
Primary - Robust Porter, Belgian Wit, Holiday Ale
Secondary -
Planned - Centennial Blonde or Pale Ale, IPA of some sort

schaez is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-14-2012, 06:16 PM   #9
crane
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 318
Liked 34 Times on 27 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

If you are going to use a thermal well you need to use thermal paste in the bottom of your well to allow for good heat transfer through the well to the temp sensor. You can buy this stuff from most electronics distributors like Digikey and mouser.

I've seen a 4F offset without thermal paste go down to a 0.1F offset once thermal paste was added.

__________________
crane is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Blowoff water sucked into beer! All of it BierStreet Equipment/Sanitation 6 01-19-2012 05:40 AM
Help name my recent batch of beer DirtyPolock General Beer Discussion 13 02-15-2011 04:56 AM
Recent Beer Score...(pics included!) TheMan General Beer Discussion 1 06-14-2010 04:54 PM
airlock water sucked into beer!!!? t-bag Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 4 03-30-2009 12:08 AM
Congrats on all the recent Mr. Beer sucess....mine is NASTY! Kayos Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 8 01-18-2007 04:31 PM



Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS