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Old 10-22-2012, 12:01 PM   #121
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This same guy is in 4th place for SEPA Hombrewer of the year: http://schomebrewers.com/content/eastern-pennsylvania-homebrewer-year-ephy-award

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Old 10-22-2012, 05:02 PM   #122
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No kidding. I am sure there is some difficult decision making to do, but they should just make a decision and be done with it at this point.
I'm holding out hope that they needed to discuss more this Wednesday, when their club meets apparently.

I also wonder if there's any chance they "punted" and contacted AHA and/or BJCP for guidance.

Heard anything, soonami?
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Old 10-22-2012, 05:26 PM   #123
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I'm holding out hope that they needed to discuss more this Wednesday, when their club meets apparently.
They met last Wednesday.
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Old 10-22-2012, 05:33 PM   #124
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I am sure they let dennis decker keeep all the awards he "earned". That is why they arent posting the results, HOPS is probably afraid of a revolte......i contacted the AHA and DFH to fill them in on this whole pile of crap
this is what the AHA had to say
I
just spoke with Dennis about his brew system, and he assured me that he uses his homebrew system in the basement of his house to produce the entries he sends to competitions. The web site is a marketing tool to gain account commitments for when his brewery actually becomes reality. As far as I am concerned, he is not breaking any rules with regard to the National Homebrew Competition.

I hope this has addressed your concerns. If not, please e-mail me directly at janis@brewersassociation.org . Thanks.

Havent herd back from DFH

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Old 10-22-2012, 05:34 PM   #125
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I belive they are going to let him cheat his way to famedom

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Old 10-22-2012, 05:34 PM   #126
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I spoke with one of the organizers of the event. I'm not supposed to give too many details, but here are some problems they might be dealing with...
IF Dennis Decker swept the BOS and a decision was then made to DQ him, how will the new BOS winners be determined? They'd have to re-examine all scores, see who would've made the mini-BOS and rejudge from there. For some beers they may have a second beer left over to judge, but not for all.
This is also a problem in individual categories, because you can assume that if one guy sweeps BOS then it is likely he had many entries and many of those also could have placed.

There are a lot of issues to deal with and I'm glad I'm not the organizer, but I wish they would send out some explanation of what is going on so people aren't left in the dark.

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Old 10-22-2012, 05:43 PM   #127
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Its lound and clear he cheated.....i am contacting all of the cordinators for the competitons i enter for the rest of the year to give them a heads up on decker....he cant keep doing this, flooding comps when he is " blatent about his intenetions.....Im sure HOPS has thier hand full......And i give the props for catching him and trying to make a stand
PS....my black IPA scored a 35 first time i brewed it......
pss, im a 3 gallon all grain stove top brewer

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Old 10-22-2012, 06:04 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Driver View Post
I'm holding out hope that they needed to discuss more this Wednesday, when their club meets apparently.

I also wonder if there's any chance they "punted" and contacted AHA and/or BJCP for guidance.

Heard anything, soonami?
I know they contacted AHA and BJCP officials for some help interpreting the rules of what qualifies as a home brew. I think this is a grey area because recently we've seen a lot of successful homebrewers take the next step to be a commercial brewer, notably Jamil Zainesheff and locally, Scott Rudich of Round Guys. However, in the rules for HOPS BOPS, it clearly says that the organizers of the competition have the ability to settle any questions or disputes and their ruling is final.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madbrewerofva View Post
I am sure they let dennis decker keeep all the awards he "earned". That is why they arent posting the results, HOPS is probably afraid of a revolte......i contacted the AHA and DFH to fill them in on this whole pile of crap
this is what the AHA had to say
I
just spoke with Dennis about his brew system, and he assured me that he uses his homebrew system in the basement of his house to produce the entries he sends to competitions. The web site is a marketing tool to gain account commitments for when his brewery actually becomes reality. As far as I am concerned, he is not breaking any rules with regard to the National Homebrew Competition.

I hope this has addressed your concerns. If not, please e-mail me directly at janis@brewersassociation.org . Thanks.

Havent herd back from DFH
It would seem to by ber her own comments, that Janis should be on the side of disqualifying his homebrew from competition because using his homebrew and website as a "marketing tool" to get investors and distribution accounts is in my mind clearly a commercial purpose. This is Part I, 7(c), pertaining to what qualifies as homebrew:
Quote:
Your homebrew cannot have been brewed on equipment used to brew beverages for any commercial purpose, whether for commercial research, production or any other purpose, including equipment at brew-on-premises establishments.
There are different interpretation of the rules. The brewer clearly thinks that what he is doing is okay. I tend to think that the rule means, you can't count something as homebrew if you are using it in anyway to make money. This means not just selling the beer, but fine tuning recipes specifically for commercial sale, entering the beer for advertising, using the competition to build a "brand" image, as a marketing tool to tell potential investors, "other people think my beer is good too, look at all these awards..."

Even if the AHA says this is legal, I don't think it passes the smell test. Just like SCOTUS Justice Potter Stewart has difficulty defining what is or isn't pornography, I think the line of reasoning he used of "I know when I see it," applies here as well. The words, actions and intentions here do not fit together into what a homebrewer is. Without the website and facebook page, then there might not be an issue, but the blatant use of commercial language, and self references as "headbrewer," calling the brewery a "local business," and directly telling the AHA that his website is a marketing tool screams to me that is his trying to become a professional, that is his intention. This is not a hobby, this is an attempt to make brewing a career.

Also, iirc the brewer in question did not win any categories that would've qualified him for the Extreme Homebrew Competition with DFH, so that is (fortunately) a non-issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmkern View Post
I spoke with one of the organizers of the event. I'm not supposed to give too many details, but here are some problems they might be dealing with...
IF Dennis Decker swept the BOS and a decision was then made to DQ him, how will the new BOS winners be determined? They'd have to re-examine all scores, see who would've made the mini-BOS and rejudge from there. For some beers they may have a second beer left over to judge, but not for all.
This is also a problem in individual categories, because you can assume that if one guy sweeps BOS then it is likely he had many entries and many of those also could have placed.

There are a lot of issues to deal with and I'm glad I'm not the organizer, but I wish they would send out some explanation of what is going on so people aren't left in the dark.
Yes. This is the part I forgot to mention. If they are to disqualify a person that won a flight or category, they'll have to bump people up in each flight to determine who should then win each flight and then be eligible for the BOS. Since this was a two bottle contest, determining who should win each flight is easy because all the second bottles that lost the mini-BOS are still leftover. However, for the competition BOS, there a logistical problem because all the second bottles were used in that tasting. So then you'd have to get people to resubmit bottles for that round of tasting. Another possibility is not to have a BOS winner and rank everyone points for each flight to determine who wins each flight if an entry is disqualified.
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Old 10-22-2012, 06:18 PM   #129
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If they contact the people that were in the BOS im sure they would have at least one bottle sitting around......i know im no considered with a score of 35 but i have a 22 and a 12 ounce in the celler

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Old 10-22-2012, 11:18 PM   #130
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I really don't care about BOS, I'd rather have results without 'em than no results at all, but I'm not in the running anyways.

I don't really care about this Dennis guy anyways. The best beer should win, if that's his, then whatever. If you can't outbrew him, then he should keep his awards. This goes into a strange territory of thought policing. Maybe we should strip Jamil Zainasheff of his awards because of Heretic. The only way to cheat in a homebrew comp is to enter beer you didn't brew yourself or get special treatment from judges. Other than that, there's no reason you at home can't make just as good beer or better than this guy. If he's entering 20+ entries in small comps with investors covering entry fees, that's lame, and he should stop. But it isn't cheating. The event organizers should tell him that he shouldn't enter any more comps with these intentions, and call it a day.

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