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Old 11-19-2010, 11:24 PM   #71
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I don't, dude.

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Old 11-19-2010, 11:33 PM   #72
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I don't, dude.
Ok, porn then.
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Old 11-19-2010, 11:46 PM   #73
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Yeah, yeah. I know I'm old, and you young'uns are so much cooler and smarter. But I feel I must comment on all this. Yoop, worked herself to a frazzle last year. Why? Because she cares about the HBT community.IMHO, she did not receive even close to adequate thanks for her efforts. Now this year she is willing to do a repeat, again, for the community. For her efforts she gets covered with acussations, irrespectfull comments, and so forth. Now she has the death of a friend to grieve. I suggest we just back off and let it rest. In due time, it will all work itself out due to Yoop's help.....

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Old 11-20-2010, 12:14 AM   #74
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If we can make sure Brain gets a prize then maybe we can have a HBT comp. That sounds like a fair and balanced law right?

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Old 11-20-2010, 12:16 AM   #75
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Yeah, yeah. I know I'm old, and you young'uns are so much cooler and smarter. But I feel I must comment on all this. Yoop, worked herself to a frazzle last year. Why? Because she cares about the HBT community.IMHO, she did not receive even close to adequate thanks for her efforts. Now this year she is willing to do a repeat, again, for the community. For her efforts she gets covered with acussations, irrespectfull comments, and so forth. Now she has the death of a friend to grieve. I suggest we just back off and let it rest. In due time, it will all work itself out due to Yoop's help.....
+1. I can't believe the attitude sometimes. There is no one who's done more for this forum than Yoop - just let this go, at least for a while.
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Old 11-20-2010, 12:24 AM   #76
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If we can make sure Brain gets a prize then maybe we can have a HBT comp. That sounds like a fair and balanced law right?
Wow, why all the hate? I'm not in it for the prizes and don't even expect to get any. I only saw a problem with the competition and said so. I'm not even sure why we are still talking about it. It's already been shown that the format as originally described doesn't meet BJCP rules. I'm not sure why everyone has such a hard time understanding that.

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+1. I can't believe the attitude sometimes. There is no one who's done more for this forum than Yoop - just let this go, at least for a while.
No one ever disrespected or put down Yooper. We all appreciate what she does and realize that a ton of work goes into putting these things together. But that doesn't mean that we should overlook any problems with the competition she organized. It's like if you had food in your teeth. Would you rather all your "friends" didn't tell you or would you rather someone had some balls and told you so you could take care of it?
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Old 11-20-2010, 12:36 AM   #77
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Can I just ask, have you ever entered a competition before? They're FULL of issues and inconsistencies and all kinds of problems. Reading someone's complaints a couple days ago, enter a beer in one comp and it's a 28, same beer in a different comp and it's BOS (or close).

I've been mostly out of the loop on this comp, but I really think there are some very, very unreasonable expectations about exactly how objective or "fair" ANY competition is going to be.

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Old 11-20-2010, 12:37 AM   #78
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Wow, why all the hate? I'm not in it for the prizes and don't even expect to get any. I only saw a problem with the competition and said so. I'm not even sure why we are still talking about it. It's already been shown that the format as originally described doesn't meet BJCP rules. I'm not sure why everyone has such a hard time understanding that.

The competitions certainly DO meet BJCP competition guidelines, as they are two separate competitions, and registered as such.

We thought it would be more of a "HBT" thing to combine the winners (ribbons) and make prizes out of it based on scores. For example, the first three places in category 14 would be combined in a BOS round and prizes awarded. In lieu of a BOS for every sub-category, we would go by highest scores.

There are TWO registered BJCP competitions, which is required for different locations as one of the first rules is to have a single location at a single time. It's not one competition, really- it's two registered competitions.

But we don't have enough prizes for two separate competitions, so we were going to simply award prizes based on the highest scores, along with a third competition which would be the BOS rounds to determine these awards.

That was explained, re-explained, etc.

We were going to have one place take something like 1-13 at one place, 14-23 at another, but we didn't want to have the confusion for entrants- ship these entries to THIS place, but THOSE entries to another. We thought we'd make it easier for shipping for entrants, as well as cheaper.

We've worked hard to get the biggest selection of good BJCP judges around who were willing to hold such a big competition, and now, over a year after the last competition we're hearing complaints about non-BJCP judges, which is NOT true. There may have been an apprentice or two, but the judges in that comp were top notch and most were more than qualified, far beyond the requirements.

Now, I'm at the point where I just don't care anymore. It's not about respect/lack of respect/questions/etc. I"m just very tired of it all.

You want a big comp with only master or national judges? YOU organize it. Even the NHC has judges that aren't as high ranking as this competition in the regionals.

I'm done here.
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Old 11-20-2010, 12:43 AM   #79
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If we can make sure Brain gets a prize then maybe we can have a HBT comp. That sounds like a fair and balanced law right?
What this gentleman said..... I even tried to donate any possible winning prize back to anybody that might feel they were cheated to calm the storm.

If I was Yooper (a moderator) I would erase any mention of any competition and pretend this never happened. That would open the door for people who know exactly how to run an on-line competition with 600 entrants to run their own comp. Problem solved.
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Old 11-20-2010, 12:50 AM   #80
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Wow, why all the hate? I'm not in it for the prizes and don't even expect to get any. I only saw a problem with the competition and said so. I'm not even sure why we are still talking about it. It's already been shown that the format as originally described doesn't meet BJCP rules. I'm not sure why everyone has such a hard time understanding that.



No one ever disrespected or put down Yooper. We all appreciate what she does and realize that a ton of work goes into putting these things together. But that doesn't mean that we should overlook any problems with the competition she organized. It's like if you had food in your teeth. Would you rather all your "friends" didn't tell you or would you rather someone had some balls and told you so you could take care of it?

I disagree. Sudbuster is right. To continue to argue while she's clearly indicated she and the judges are working to accommodate the comp.'s shortcomings and dealing with the death of a friend's husband is quite disrespectful. Not trying to be disrespectful to you, Brian, and I'm definitely not trying to single you out. Let's read some of she's written:

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I don't agree, but I can see what you're saying. Since we are all volunteers, we all do the best we can but there is nothing in it for us. Nothing. Not financial gain, not even much appreciation. It's actually a ton of work, with countless hours for registering, organizing, getting prizes, etc. There is a ton of trash to be disposed of, judges to organize, and a whole weekend given up for those who help organize. There are scoresheets to fill out, and to mail out in a timely manner. All of the postage, paper, etc, cost money and the cost to register this comp in two sites is $70.

To be honest, at this point it's not worth it.

The competition is on hold. If and when these issues are resolved, then we will proceed.
She listens to those who disagree with the rules

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I know some people are disappointed, but we're still in conversation about how to fix it to make it more equitable. Please don't resort to namecalling and complaints, as we are still working on it and want it to be fun and informative for everyone.

I especially value the input and constructive criticism, and am not blaming anyone for the delay. We're still trying to make it happen, and I'll be sure to let everyone know as soon as we have it ironed out. I consider KingBrian a friend of mine, and know that he wasn't personal in any criticism, and I didn't take it that way. Please don't make any of these issues personal, as they are not. I like and respect Brian and AnOldUR (if anyone thinks that he was negative- I don't!) and consider them friends of mine. No one should be called out as an impediment, as they are not. There were some questions that I wasn't prepared to argue and so we're in discussions on how to revamp if necessary. We may or may not revamp- but we're discussing it.

In the meantime, there are always competitions listed on the BJCP list, and I would encourage everyone to check it out and enter the ones you'd like. The best competitions have great scoresheets and helpful evaluation of your beer, so that you can improve as a brewer.
Trying to make an equitable solution

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The judges, however, are excited about it and are still making their plans and helping me hammer out the rules.

We will let you know when we're ready. Until then, I'd be happiest if we would just let the subject die.
Can't be any more transparent than the emboldened text.

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Well, I'm only going to post once more regarding this, and then not again until the competition rules are completely 100% finalized and non-negotiable.

Just now, my phone rang. My daughter called to tell me that one of my friend's husband's died last night suddenly, of an apparent heart attack. So instead of thinking about silly things, I'm going out to my cottage to do some deer hunting after work, and then I'll be seeing what my friend needs. I'll be attending my friend's funeral in a few days. Life is too short. I already miss my friend, Chuck, who was a fine upstanding Christian man and a rock for so many. He was the director of our church camp, and a former missionary to the Sudan.

I'm not even thinking about the competition for at least a few days.
Let's just give it a break. Yoop asked to let it die until a resolution is made. She's the coordinator, let's allow her to work her magic in her time.
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