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Old 11-19-2010, 12:52 PM   #21
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I'm very sorry to hear that, Lorena. My prayers go out to your friend and her family.

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Old 11-19-2010, 12:58 PM   #22
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I'm not going to post too much on this since Yooper prefers that we let the subject drop but I'm sorry if some people think I was a whiner or took my criticism of the format to "a-hole levels". As Yooper said, she and I are good friends and I never meant to take anything away from all the work and time she puts into these competitions. I do appreciate the effort that goes into these things which is all the more reason I thought it important I voice my concerns. We, as homebrewers, put a lot of effort into these comps too. We brew the beer, pay to ship the beer, pay to enter the competition, etc. I think that effort should be rewarded by a balanced judging and reward system. Yes, it is just for fun, but when prizes (and really nice ones at that) are at stake I think the judging system should be infallible (or as close to it as possible).

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Old 11-19-2010, 01:15 PM   #23
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Quote:
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Yes, it is just for fun, but when prizes (and really nice ones at that) are at stake I think the judging system should be infallible (or as close to it as possible).
You said it yourself right there. You wanted basically two competitions, one for each side of the country, so there could be more prizes!! If you want more prizes you go out and try to get some.

The way I see it the HBT comp. was set up like any other competition. Look at the NHC comp. You have 6 regions with thousands of beers that need to come together for 1 winner and I don't see much bitching about that one! These comps. aren't equal or always fair, regardless of the prizes you get. Half the time I am looking for decent feedback and my score sheet back in a decent time. That's it. If you are in for the 7.5 gal. stainless steel conical fermentor well that's your prerogative, but you are already setting yourself up for dissapointment really. Plus with any comp. it depends on the judge you get. Let's say we send in the same beer. What if the judge I get likes the fact that the beer has a little hop bite and your judge doesn't. That's probably a 5-6 point difference right there in the taste category and you are screwed right off the abt and you don't even know until you get your score sheets back two weeks later.

King- you bring up valid points that could be applied to any competition really. But until these competitions actually get SMALLER and really more local we need to be a little less critical of the system because it works pretty good anyway.
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Old 11-19-2010, 01:23 PM   #24
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I'm not going to post too much on this since Yooper prefers that we let the subject drop but I'm sorry if some people think I was a whiner or took my criticism of the format to "a-hole levels". As Yooper said, she and I are good friends and I never meant to take anything away from all the work and time she puts into these competitions. I do appreciate the effort that goes into these things which is all the more reason I thought it important I voice my concerns. We, as homebrewers, put a lot of effort into these comps too. We brew the beer, pay to ship the beer, pay to enter the competition, etc. I think that effort should be rewarded by a balanced judging and reward system. Yes, it is just for fun, but when prizes (and really nice ones at that) are at stake I think the judging system should be infallible (or as close to it as possible).
"a lot of work"??

we brew beer (something we would have done regardless....), then pay $7 to enter and another ~$7 to ship - then we forced to do all this work, waiting around, b*tching on the boards about where our scoresheets are, constantly nagging the organizer about who won what why, ensuring that they realize that we used brewer's licorice in that stout, and eventually blaming the organizers for leaving our beer out in the sun.

doesn't sound like a whole lot of work to me.

prizes are a bonus. are you really in this hobby to win money? no judging system, especially one so extremely subjective as judging taste, is ever going to be close to "infallible". heck, even billion-dollar, centuries-old industries can't create "infallible" judging systems. Just ask the Detroit Lions.

don't get all of us wrapped up in your beer nerd turf wars.
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Old 11-19-2010, 01:28 PM   #25
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Quote:
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You said it yourself right there. You wanted basically two competitions, one for each side of the country, so there could be more prizes!! If you want more prizes you go out and try to get some.

The way I see it the HBT comp. was set up like any other competition. Look at the NHC comp. You have 6 regions with thousands of beers that need to come together for 1 winner and I don't see much bitching about that one! These comps. aren't equal or always fair, regardless of the prizes you get. Half the time I am looking for decent feedback and my score sheet back in a decent time. That's it. If you are in for the 7.5 gal. stainless steel conical fermentor well that's your prerogative, but you are already setting yourself up for dissapointment really. Plus with any comp. it depends on the judge you get. Let's say we send in the same beer. What if the judge I get likes the fact that the beer has a little hop bite and your judge doesn't. That's probably a 5-6 point difference right there in the taste category and you are screwed right off the abt and you don't even know until you get your score sheets back two weeks later.

King- you bring up valid points that could be applied to any competition really. But until these competitions actually get SMALLER and really more local we need to be a little less critical of the system because it works pretty good anyway.

The HBT comp was not set up like other competitions. There will be a winner for each category or group of categories, for instance American Ales. The winner for that category (and thus the prize winner) will be taken from the highest scoring beer in that category from either the east or the west. That winning beer will not be tasted side-by-side with the top beers from the other region. The BOS prize will, but not all the other prizes. That is the difference.

I'm not looking to get more prizes in the competition, only a fair system.
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Old 11-19-2010, 01:52 PM   #26
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In a local HB contest this spring, they took all entries that scored above a certain number of points and combined them for a BOS round. If you didn't get a good enough score, you didn't advance, period.

IIRC there were 17 BOS entries out of 130ish total entries. That's going by memory. 80%+ of the total entries placed. Gold medal winners advanced (40+ points)

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Old 11-19-2010, 01:55 PM   #27
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don't get all of us wrapped up in your beer nerd turf wars.
wtf are you talking about? I'm not in it for the prizes but if the competition is awarding prizes, I think it should be done fairly. Not just for me but for everyone who enters.
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Old 11-19-2010, 02:03 PM   #28
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how is it not fair!?

beers are awarded points. highest points wins. sounds pretty damn fair to me. that the winning beer won't be tasted side by side is a pretty dumb hill to die on.

how about this - you pay for all the plane tickets to fly all the judges to one location.

or pay for an entire new set of prizes to hold each comp seperate.

come up with solutions or stop ruining everyone's fun. anyone can couch-organize.

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Old 11-19-2010, 02:07 PM   #29
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This one is going to get locked too. That's my prediction....

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Old 11-19-2010, 02:16 PM   #30
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well i'm pissed. and i'll be up in the woods for the next 5 days so I won't be able to express my anger!

it seems ridiculous to me that, given the amount of work that was put in getting us this far, for it to just completely stall because a handful of people said "that might not be the absolute fairest way of doing it!"

i hate to sound like my dad here, but - life's not f*cking fair. deal with hit.

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