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Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Community > General Chit Chat > Would you let a child die....
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Old 09-21-2007, 10:28 PM   #21
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That's alright, well no it's not but get this:

My grandparents used to live in a lake community. Well now my sister occupies their house, anyway. One weekend we were out there and their neighbor, who has a pontoon boat casted off and started speeding to the other side of the lake. Asked where he was going he quickly shot a "Some kid drowned" over his shoulder. He was serious. They were having a church gathering at a house down the street. They decided they were going to take the boat out. Well, it was rated for about 3 adults (we have the same kind of boat, not very big).

They managed to load this boat up with about 3 adults and 4 kids (that was the initial report.) and flipped the boat. Unfortunately the dumbass adults made it back to land, and 2 of the children drowned. Now, first they drowned because everyone was too chicken to save them and Second because they overloaded the damn boat.

When the question of charges was brought up, they decided not to press charges. WHAT?!?!? Are you kidding me, that's endangerment and neglect, not to mention some degree of involuntary manslaughter. The kids were even told NOT to get on the boat by their parents, but the kid didn't listen, and neither did the person on the boat. No life preservers either.

Yeah, long post i know, but it pisses me off what people try to get away with sometimes. Unfortunately they did get off the hook for some ungodly reason. Not only that but they got reports after that covered up so that it sounded like the boat wasn't overloaded. Last report i heard i was 2 adults and 2 kids...

I'm with you Cnbudz: Not only would i have been in the water the instant there was trouble i would have kicked the "police officer's" ass.

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Old 09-22-2007, 03:01 AM   #22
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you can't tell me the cops didn't know a child was drowning. if'n you don't rush to help in a case of children in trouble you don't need to be cassified as human

He was trying to support Bethany as she struggled in the six-feet-deep water before slipping from view.

that's just drives me nuts they have jackets don't they? rant over

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Old 09-22-2007, 03:52 AM   #23
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Things like this confirm my idea that countries should be able to sterilize certain portions of their population.

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Old 09-22-2007, 03:58 AM   #24
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OK let me preface this by saying that I probably would have gone after the kid, too.

But one of the first things you are taught in CPR training is that you DON"T exceed your training. You do what you are trained for and keep doing it until someone more qualified arrives. Now, this is what is taught for CPR and I don't know if it would be the same for a drowning victim, but if it is, it explains why the officers didn't go in after the child. Doesn't make it any more pleasant.

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Old 09-22-2007, 04:00 AM   #25
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It's a shame a Boy Scout was not there. The child would be alive today and those pathetic excuses for "Public Safety Officers" would be fired.

Absolutely pathetic excuses for men, and even human beings.

I'm trained in lifesaving and CPR, was a firefighter & EMT for 5 years. First thing is your own hide, but when a small child is drowning, for crying out loud. 6 ft of water, OK, if they may of been short bastards ( I can stand in 6 ft and still breath) but still, it's just a kid.

The pathetic political correctness cancer that afflicts Britain may keep these buttwipes out of jail, but their guilt will NEVER leave them.

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Old 09-22-2007, 02:59 PM   #26
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Let me first say that I like to play devils advocate for the sake of arguement.

Someone mentioned CPR and not exceeding your limits. In the US we have what are called "Good Samaritin" laws that provide some protection to people attempting life saving techniques (i.e. You can't be arrested for assault after legitimiately giving someone the Heimlich).

However, those laws do not extend to untrained personel. In fact, case law shows the OPPOSITE, that an untrained person can do more DAMAGE than good, and when someone knowingly acts on that, they can be prosecuted criminally. (i.e. CRP breaks ribs, punctures lung = go to jail)

That said, in the US, if those officers HAD attempted a rescue and FAILED, they would have gone to jail.

Likewise, say that they HAD jumped in, and inadvertantly drown the child themselves when panic set in: how many people would be jumping on them for acting knowing they were untrained?

And finally: how the hell does one become a public safety officer without basic lifesaving training? My CPR and lifesaving lessons through the red cross took a total of 5 hours and I worked in a juvenile prison - the odds that one of them ended up in water were staggeringly low.

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Old 09-22-2007, 03:00 PM   #27
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So would you let the child die?

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Old 09-22-2007, 04:15 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orfy
So would you let the child die?
I know how to swim, and even though it's been a while since my training, I think that my action in that situation would have been helpful - No, I would not let the child die, I would attempt a rescue.

HOWEVER...

I distrust all media, there's not a single media outlet that presents things factually without a spin... If they did, there would be NOTHING seperating one media outlet from any other. In this case, I simply don't have enough information to condemn OR exonerate these officers.

If someone is in that situation and has a reasonable belief that their actions will HELP, they should be morally compelled to do so. Not helping when you think you can is just shy of manslaughter, in my mind.

The opposite is true.

When someone has a REASONABLE belief that their actions will HARM someone, and does it anyway, that is immoral.

I don't know of those officers CAN swim. If they HAD jumped in, unable to swim, and they had drown the kid, I'd be FURIOUS - I'd say they would be ethically and legally responcible for that child's death.
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Old 09-22-2007, 04:39 PM   #29
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It's not about letting a child die. It's about using your head before you make a bad situation worse. I let children die everyday - I waste my money on luxuries instead of giving to third world food programs. It's time to drop the chest thumping and bleeding heart rage and start using your heads.

Before you react as a first responder, you better be sure you are capable and have the gear to deal with the situation, whether it's a man down in a confined space, HAZMAT crisis or a drowning victim. Just 'jumping in' to any situation unprepared screams LODD (Line of Duty Death). It might be a good idea for those who think otherwise to review these kinds of situations. Start by looking at the percentage of first responder victims in water resuces, it isn't on the low side.

Maybe the critics should ask themselves - 'Would I expect a person in a wheelchair to crawl into the water?'. Because an improperly trained person in a water rescue is just as useful when it comes to getting into the water.

Water rescue ain't like baking cookies. If you've ever seen someone drown, you would know better.

I too see a lot of media spin. Seems the police are really making hay out of this one, hmmmmm I wonder why? And the family is pretty quick to point fingers elsewhere too.

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Old 09-22-2007, 05:52 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Dean
Let me first say that I like to play devils advocate for the sake of arguement.

Someone mentioned CPR and not exceeding your limits. In the US we have what are called "Good Samaritin" laws that provide some protection to people attempting life saving techniques (i.e. You can't be arrested for assault after legitimiately giving someone the Heimlich).

However, those laws do not extend to untrained personel. In fact, case law shows the OPPOSITE, that an untrained person can do more DAMAGE than good, and when someone knowingly acts on that, they can be prosecuted criminally. (i.e. CRP breaks ribs, punctures lung = go to jail)

That said, in the US, if those officers HAD attempted a rescue and FAILED, they would have gone to jail.

Likewise, say that they HAD jumped in, and inadvertantly drown the child themselves when panic set in: how many people would be jumping on them for acting knowing they were untrained?

And finally: how the hell does one become a public safety officer without basic lifesaving training? My CPR and lifesaving lessons through the red cross took a total of 5 hours and I worked in a juvenile prison - the odds that one of them ended up in water were staggeringly low.

Well said. That is a more descriptive version of what I was saying . Like you, I was trying to play devil's advocate. Basically, the good samaritan law says that, if you are trained in some sort of lifesaving, be it CPR or whatever, you are OBLIGATED to assist, and you are protected from prosecution. You are NOT protected if you do anything that exceeds your training. Even if you save a life you can be, and often are, sued. Such is the mess that we have in our litigious society.

All that being said, I probably would have jumped in after the child, consequenses be damned.
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