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Old 12-05-2009, 04:48 PM   #21
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Really? I've always known it to be the opposite. If you're being paid to take pictures for them, then they own the pictures you take. Intellectual property that is produced within the scope of a job is generally the property of the employer unless they've made legal arrangement in advance.

Don't think this applies to the OP's situation though.
Yeah, we are getting a little off topic but I know for a fact thats how it works with photography. Granted most people do probably have a contract and that is in it somewhere but by default it is yours. Hell say you get your camera set up, framed, exposure set but just turn your back for one second and somebody else presses the shutter release. That person now owns the rights to it.
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Old 12-05-2009, 05:24 PM   #22
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As far as "protecting your property", I'm going to say that you don't own jack ****. Take the great opportunity to have a commercial brewery produce your recipe. Enter some comps, maybe have him sponsor you for a Pro/Am comp if you have won any awards with the beer in question.

Recipes are a dime a dozen. If its something unique, then yea maybe you have a point. The brewer doesn't owe you any money for the resulting sales from you recipe. Maybe he will pay you for the work you put in if you are lucky. Like I said before, take the opportunity to brew on a commercial scale. You said you were looking to get into the business. If you work hard and show your dedication, maybe this could translate into a job.

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Old 12-05-2009, 05:34 PM   #23
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Recipes are a dime a dozen. If its something unique, then yea maybe you have a point.
Perfect example is the Sam Adams long shot winner that was just a Pliney clone.
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Old 12-05-2009, 07:20 PM   #24
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Yeah, we are getting a little off topic but I know for a fact thats how it works with photography. Granted most people do probably have a contract and that is in it somewhere but by default it is yours. Hell say you get your camera set up, framed, exposure set but just turn your back for one second and somebody else presses the shutter release. That person now owns the rights to it.
I know this is a bit off topic, but my general point is that if the OP wants a deal in place he has to make sure it's with someone who is in a position to make the deal. The brewer might not be that person.

Second, pushing the button doesn't mean you own the frame. In general, it does, but there are court cases that have awarded the copyright to the company the person worked for, not the photographer, simply because the photo was shot on a company camera. The best case that jumps to mind right away is the image of the baby and the firefighter during the OKC bombing. Lester LaRue (who was one of two photographers to take a similar photo) shot his copy of the famous image on a camera owned by Oklahoma Natural Gas. After being fired for refusing to turn over the copyright and the money he earned from selling the photos the company took him to court and was awarded ownership of the copyright.

Again, know where you stand before you move forward. Just because the brewer says one thing, make sure he or she is in a position to make these sorts of promises.

This brings up another question i have had along the same lines. What do professional brewers do when they create a recipe for a brew-pub? If the brewer leaves do they take the recipe with them or does the brewery still have the right to produce the beer without them? I know on Can you Brew It, the brewer isn't always authorized to give away the recipe to the listeners. What happens if that brewer goes to work for another brewery? There has to be some sort of standard practice for all this.
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Old 12-05-2009, 07:28 PM   #25
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The best case that jumps to mind right away is the image of the baby and the firefighter during the OKC bombing. Lester LaRue (who was one of two photographers to take a similar photo) shot his copy of the famous image on a camera owned by Oklahoma Natural Gas. After being fired for refusing to turn over the copyright and the money he earned from selling the photos the company took him to court and was awarded ownership of the copyright.
I actually hadn't heard that but then again I guess anything is possible in court. I had spoken to a copyright attorney and that is just what they told me.

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Again, know where you stand before you move forward. Just because the brewer says one thing, make sure he or she is in a position to make these sorts of promises.
I wasn't trying to say that ANYTHING that I was saying about the photography had anything to do with your rights to the recipe. They were unrelated and just got off topic. I just wanted to make that clear
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Old 12-05-2009, 07:53 PM   #26
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Whats with all the secrecy lately?
Well, I don't want to come out and say, "Hey guys! Such and such at such and such brewery wants to do this", and then a week later he says, "Nevermind". That would just make me look like an a$$ me thinks. I'll come out with it when it happens
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As far as "protecting your property", I'm going to say that you don't own jack ****. Take the great opportunity to have a commercial brewery produce your recipe. Enter some comps, maybe have him sponsor you for a Pro/Am comp if you have won any awards with the beer in question.

Recipes are a dime a dozen. If its something unique, then yea maybe you have a point. The brewer doesn't owe you any money for the resulting sales from you recipe. Maybe he will pay you for the work you put in if you are lucky. Like I said before, take the opportunity to brew on a commercial scale. You said you were looking to get into the business. If you work hard and show your dedication, maybe this could translate into a job.
Yep, I'm going to take the oppertunity as a major bit of leraning experience and slap it on the old resume. I've never had expeince in this area for someone wanting to use my recipe so I posed the question on how to go about it and what I should expect from the deal. Everyone did a great job in filing me on on what to expect. Thanks guys!
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Old 12-05-2009, 07:54 PM   #27
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Good luck. Let us know how it goes. I think it will be a great learning experience for you. Especially since you have said you want to start brewing. If it happens before April (I'll be moving), I'd love to try it.

Also, I had a great conversation with one of the brewers from Hoppin Frog SNOBS Christmas Party last night on how to go about getting a job at a brewery. I can share any insight if you would like.

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Old 12-05-2009, 09:31 PM   #28
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Good luck. Let us know how it goes. I think it will be a great learning experience for you. Especially since you have said you want to start brewing. If it happens before April (I'll be moving), I'd love to try it.
Getting out of Cleveland, eh? Lucky bastard. I'll let you all know if it goes through!

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Also, I had a great conversation with one of the brewers from Hoppin Frog SNOBS Christmas Party last night on how to go about getting a job at a brewery. I can share any insight if you would like.
I've been actually doing some bottling for Fred down at Hoppin' Frog, good guy and I hope to work for him full time. Would love to hear some insite that they gave you!
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Old 12-06-2009, 12:43 AM   #29
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Yea, I'm taking the BJCP class with Fred, and talked to him for a while last night. If you are working with him, I'm sure you know his story.

OT:
Just had some Bourbon Barrel aged BORIS last night. That stuff is killer!

EDIT: Oops, I'm bad with names, it was Dave, not Fred from Hoppin Frog.

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Old 01-30-2013, 12:17 PM   #30
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Now, theoretically, say one of my brewmaster friends of one of the brewery’s I visit really likes one of my beers in particular. Likes it so much that he thinks it will win awards. Theoretically, lets say that he wants to have me and him brew up that recipe using the companies large scale equipment from start to finish.

He then wants to enter it into one of the major competitions in hopes of winning an award and would pay for everything (including an extra medal for me), and give me fair credit. Now, theoretically, let’s say that I agree. What would I have to do to both protect myself and my beer. Should I ask for money if it becomes one of the brew house’s beers? Do I need stuff in writing, is there a form for that?

Help, I’m theoretically thinking this would be a huge step for me and I’m slightly in awestruck. Sorry if this is the wrong spot for this theoretical question.
So did this lead to what you have listed in your sig?
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