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Old 12-05-2012, 10:19 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by TyTanium
Science also told us that fat was bad and margarine was good. Not disagreeing with you on the dairy, just saying there's still a lot to be learned in food science, IMO.
Science isn't perfect- that's what makes it science. Go with the best data at hand and test new hypothesis and update when there is good evidence to do so. I will always pick science over a hunch.

Sure, milk from a small farmer who isn't over populating and isn't pumping his cows full of growth hormones has absolute benefits. Bringing the milk to temperature to sanitize it doesn't negate those benefits.
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Old 12-05-2012, 10:32 PM   #22
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But food science is a complete joke. Just a few years ago they told us margarine was much better for us than butter. Now they say that was wrong. And they told us eggs were terrible for us. Now they say that was wrong. And they still tell us red wine is good, but when they take the "good" parts and make a drug with it, it doesn't work at all. And our food pyramid always used carbs as a foundation. Seen the rates of diabetes lately?

Now, I'm an engineer so I'm all about math & science, but the fact is human bodies and nutrition is just far too complicated for our reductionist science methods to understand. And milk is a very complicated food that science probably won't understand for a long time.

For those seeking better milk but aren't sure about raw, check out Super Natural (whole fat, of course), which Whole Foods carries. It's low-temperature pasteurized and from grass fed cows. Like most folks, I grew up drinking plain old cheap milk, but this stuff actually has flavor. And it's amazingly tasty!

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Old 12-05-2012, 10:41 PM   #23
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And p.s. IMHO I see an analogy between raw milk and soil fertility. Current ag practices are to pump our crops full of NPK and let the soil fertility be damned. Who cares about soil microorganisms when some petrochemicals will make the plant turn green overnight. Now people are starting to see how misguided that philosophy is.

Similarly, high-temp pasteurization kills the living stuff in milk, enzymes, bacterias, etc. Are we losing something useful? Who knows. I don't drink raw milk, but I respect the decision to do so.

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Old 12-05-2012, 11:20 PM   #24
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Yeah, the FDA. You can trust the US Government...just ask any Native American...
I wasn't going to reply with anything regarding this topic, but I wholeheartedly agree. Just look at all the FDA approved food and drugs that have known carcinogens in them.
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Old 12-07-2012, 03:23 PM   #25
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Germ theory is not a socialist conspiracy.

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Old 12-07-2012, 03:55 PM   #26
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Germ theory is not a socialist conspiracy.
Nice straw man argument. Try again.
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Old 08-24-2013, 12:52 AM   #27
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I grew up on a small dairy farm with my parents and 3 younger sisters. We all drank raw milk 2 or 3 times a day and most of the food that we ate was prepared with it too. I think there is nothing better and the white liquid that they sell in the grocery store is not even close. We never had any milk related health issues that I know of and we only brought a couple of gallons a day to the house so it never had time to go bad. Now that good fresh Jersey milk is no longer available to me, I seldom ever drink milk anymore. The store bought stuff just "aint right".

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Old 08-24-2013, 01:16 AM   #28
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I grew up on a small dairy farm with my parents and 3 younger sisters. We all drank raw milk 2 or 3 times a day and most of the food that we ate was prepared with it too. I think there is nothing better and the white liquid that they sell in the grocery store is not even close. We never had any milk related health issues that I know of and we only brought a couple of gallons a day to the house so it never had time to go bad. Now that good fresh Jersey milk is no longer available to me, I seldom ever drink milk anymore. The store bought stuff just "aint right".
I don't like to drink milk from the store either, I do make yogurt with it though. I drank raw milk for years and I miss it.

I can tell that someone hasn't grown up around agriculture when they start throwing around words like "hormone free", "grass fed" and "free range". This country boy knows about such marketing strategies.
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Old 08-24-2013, 01:36 AM   #29
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There isnt a lot of "science" with raw milk because there is no funding. However there has been some studies. If you check out Mark McAfee from Organic Pastures in CA. He has conducted/and funded some actual science I belive,to get down to some more truth about the health matters.

I reccommend making kefir out of it,preferably with kefir grains but kefir powder form works well. It gives me strength and builds the immune system gut ecology in turn making you thrive with health.

There has been science about how pasturized/homogenized milk invades your body negativly and actually reverses bone density and causing hosts of linked diseases. Just so much crap has gone into shelf stability/profits in food processing that it makes me sick and literally everybody that consistanly consumes it sicker because of the "ease" of production. This is just the tip of the iceberg for me about how I came to. Pasturization only began because of overpopulated farms in a city(NY) where they shouldnt be being fed (hate to say it) spent grain from disillaries which is an unnatural cow diet. Yeah they fixed the matter(by pasturizing rancid/infected milk) but the real way they should have done it was to field raise cows naturally grass feeding in their natural habitat. Pasturzation was a quick (cheeper) solution that Mr. Louis Pastur invented. But it works for mass population.People dont get sick....yet(until we develop long term diseases). Which is kinda like aspartame,msg,and all the other crap which I belive is part of a trigger for cancer) Cancer is not inherited it orgionates from something somewhere. Its about long term problems which they have never studied-which seems to be the case always with pharmacutical drugs to mention. And we have stuck with Pasturzation for a long long time. Remember we are experiments in this life-its live and learn and learn from mistakes but its hard when people lobby and fund and invest so much money for profit without caring about health. In turn we are led in a path paved by greed and profit only to make us sicker/dumber without knowing it(because they make laws that protect money and profit for investers/compaines)

There still is alot of complexity about raw milk but one thing that can not be mixed up is that there is milk that is intended to be consumed raw and milk that needs to be pasturized which is mainly the commecialy produced mixed farm-lysteria infested pus milk. There are also people that shouldnt drink it as well.

Im not saying there isnt people who havent gotten sick from milk being intended to drink raw,and maybe some of those issues are the individual persons immune system or the care that went into farming. There are certain rules also that go into drinking raw milk that people that start it need to be educated about.

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Old 08-24-2013, 02:12 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by jonmohno View Post
There isnt a lot of "science" with raw milk because there is no funding. However there has been some studies. If you check out Mark McAfee from Organic Pastures in CA. He has conducted/and funded some actual science I belive,to get down to some more truth about the health matters.

I reccommend making kefir out of it,preferably with kefir grains but kefir powder form works well. It gives me strength and builds the immune system gut ecology in turn making you thrive with health.

There has been science about how pasturized/homogenized milk invades your body negativly and actually reverses bone density and causing hosts of linked diseases. Just so much crap has gone into shelf stability/profits in food processing that it makes me sick and literally everybody that consistanly consumes it sicker because of the "ease" of production. This is just the tip of the iceberg for me about how I came to. Pasturization only began because of overpopulated farms in a city(NY) where they shouldnt be being fed (hate to say it) spent grain from disillaries which is an unnatural cow diet. Yeah they fixed the matter(by pasturizing rancid/infected milk) but the real way they should have done it was to field raise cows naturally grass feeding in their natural habitat. Pasturzation was a quick (cheeper) solution that Mr. Louis Pastur invented. But it works for mass population.People dont get sick....yet(until we develop long term diseases). Which is kinda like aspartame,msg,and all the other crap which I belive is part of a trigger for cancer) Cancer is not inherited it orgionates from something somewhere. Its about long term problems which they have never studied-which seems to be the case always with pharmacutical drugs to mention. And we have stuck with Pasturzation for a long long time. Remember we are experiments in this life-its live and learn and learn from mistakes but its hard when people lobby and fund and invest so much money for profit without caring about health. In turn we are led in a path paved by greed and profit only to make us sicker/dumber without knowing it(because they make laws that protect money and profit for investers/compaines)

There still is alot of complexity about raw milk but one thing that can not be mixed up is that there is milk that is intended to be consumed raw and milk that needs to be pasturized which is mainly the commecialy produced mixed farm-lysteria infested pus milk. There are also people that shouldnt drink it as well.
Gotta say some types of cancer most certainly are inherited. Certain mutations in genes can be inherited which predisposes you for a great risk of cancer. That with lifestyle choices can lead to cancer.

Nothing with the body is black and white.

Fact is humans were not suppose to consume animal milk. You lack lactase (except for babies and some european adults) to effectively digest lactose. Which is why dairy and dairy products lead to digestive issues.

I havent done any research into whether raw milk is any better but I would be surprised.

However I love cheese so Im gonna keep on eating it.
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