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Old 10-31-2007, 08:42 PM   #21
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If somebody is convicted of drunk driving (assuming it's defined not too far from where it is defined today), has their license suspended, and is caught drinking and driving again, they need to be locked up (and hopefully some treatment is made available to them). If you've proven that you're unable or unwilling to NOT D&D, you're a threat to public health and ought to be off the street. Now, that won't happen because it's expensive, but that's the kind of thing that even a tax-hating libertarian like me thinks ought to be a priority.

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Old 10-31-2007, 08:44 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by rdwj
We're losing more and more freedoms every day. People seem to want to live in a nanny state. I just don't understand it. And it's not just drinking laws. The city right next to be now has photo-enforced intersections. Pull into the crosswalk on red - CLICK - $100 dollar ticket coming your way.

We're slowly becoming a technocracy where everything we do will be monitored - ALL in the name of safety.
Don't even get me started on marijuana....
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Old 10-31-2007, 08:45 PM   #23
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You are right, but I cringe at the thought of a blood test outside a hospital, much less a jail, yuck!!!! LOL, I would have left as quite as you did under those same conditions, lol. I think .1 is good, .08 I can do but am not happy about it, I have a .08 DWI from Texas. I am in no way saying I didn't do anything wrong, but the cop was going to let me go after my sobriety test, except he had a tag a long and wanted to have him do the Breathalyzer. I blew .07 something and they took me to the jail. At jail they re-breathalyzed me and I blew .08. They were really nice state troopers though, and very polite and apologetic even. I have to say, if your ever going to get thrown in jail Crosbyton, TX is a nice place, lol.

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Old 10-31-2007, 08:46 PM   #24
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Just FYI, unless you have taken a swig of mouthwash or had been previously sucking on a can of binaka immediately before being administered a Breathalyzer test it will not register. Even if it had the most it will read is .01 or less. Also in most states a blood test is always an option, it is just a matter of dragging the person in question to the local ER. Also generally the alcu-check devices used for roadside tests are not admissible in court, they are considered a go/no-go test, and are just a tool to judge whether or not the subject has alcohol in their system and whether or not there is justification to take them to either the city or counties Intoxilyzer 5000 machine (or what every one they are using).

By all means, if you are pulled for DUI/DWI ask for a blood test, it is the most accurate and in most states your right, be cautioned however, there is almost no refuting a blood test.

Of course this can all be countered by visiting any of the "I'm a poor victim" websites which advise people of circumventing state and Federal laws.

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Old 10-31-2007, 08:46 PM   #25
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Zero tolerance? That's great..... if the person is actually drunk. I have a friend that blew a .005, but was arrested, charged, and convicted. It was psychotic, we hadn't even made it to the bar yet. The cop decided that he failed the sobriety "tests" and locked him up. Then he asked me if I was sober enough to drive his car. I told him that the way they handled things in this hick town, I'll never drive a car here. That cop left me standing on the side of the highway. THAT is the REAL problem with intoxication laws. If a cop wants to be an ass, he can and will. It's like the day I got a ticket for speeding in a school zone.... But I got it in the mail???? Before that I had no clue that a school bus driver can report you resulting in a ticket. Thing is, I'd never been within 20 miles of the school. It took a couple weeks, but the ticket was dropped by the officer that wrote it, only after he got a vehicle description that didn't match my car.

It's very PC to say that we need to crack down on drunk drivers, but the reality is that those who want to drive, WILL!! whether they have a license or not! The punishment around here is usually a couple days in jail, a couple THOUSAND dollars, high risk insurance rates, difficulty getting jobs, etc, etc, etc. The last thing we need is to let that get any more out of whack. It's cheaper to be convicted of cocaine possession! If you are a small town that doesn't want any "drunk" driving, OUTLAW ALCOHOL AND SHUT DOWN ALL BARS..... Oh, that would reduce your town's municipal income by 80% and half your citizens would move away? Too bad! Have the cake or eat it.

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Old 10-31-2007, 08:49 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_bird
If somebody is convicted of drunk driving (assuming it's defined not too far from where it is defined today), has their license suspended, and is caught drinking and driving again, they need to be locked up (and hopefully some treatment is made available to them). If you've proven that you're unable or unwilling to NOT D&D, you're a threat to public health and ought to be off the street. Now, that won't happen because it's expensive, but that's the kind of thing that even a tax-hating libertarian like me thinks ought to be a priority.
Same here. Even libertarian types can agree that there are certain externalities that have to be overseen by the government in the public realm...and our roads are the public realm. And yeah, multiple offenders need to be taken off the streets so they can't hurt anyone...though, I still think that this business of putting someone in prison and charging them about $10,000 because of a 0.08 is nonsense. It should be at the very lowest 0.10. OR just have a sliding scale of punishment. You drive with 0.08, you pay a fine. You drive with 0.10, you get your license suspended too. You drive with a 0.15, you go to jail and get your license suspended. Something like that. I mean, it just doesn't sound right that someone with a 0.08 is treated the same as someone with a 0.13.
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Old 10-31-2007, 08:51 PM   #27
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Same here. Even libertarian types can agree that there are certain externalities that have to be overseen by the government in the public realm...and our roads are the public realm. And yeah, multiple offenders need to be taken off the streets so they can't hurt anyone...though, I still think that this business of putting someone in prison and charging them about $10,000 because of a 0.08 is nonsense. It should be at the very lowest 0.10. OR just have a sliding scale of punishment. You drive with 0.08, you pay a fine. You drive with 0.10, you get your license suspended too. You drive with a 0.15, you go to jail and get your license suspended. Something like that. I mean, it just doesn't sound right that someone with a 0.08 is treated the same as someone with a 0.13.
I can agree with that.

I mean, this issue is further complicated by the fact that a lightweight like me's not going to be in any shape to think about driving if I'm pushing a 0.12%, but for others, they might be OK. The 0.08% standard, I think, assumes the worst-case in terms of an individual's alcholol tolerance.
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Old 10-31-2007, 08:57 PM   #28
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These nanny state laws are draconian and ridiculous. Especially in the cases outlined in that article. Unfortunately most American's are more than happy to elect representation that will enact and enforce these laws. Politicians in both parties are more than happy to pander to the "but but but... think of the children!" crowd and lump the 95% of us who are responsible for our actions with the lowest common denominator of society.

We get the government we deserve.

Start at the ground level, organize and systematically vote the Sheriffs, City Council members, DA's, Judges, Mayors, etc... out of office who are responsible.

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Old 10-31-2007, 08:58 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_bird
I can agree with that.

I mean, this issue is further complicated by the fact that a lightweight like me's not going to be in any shape to think about driving if I'm pushing a 0.12%, but for others, they might be OK. The 0.08% standard, I think, assumes the worst-case in terms of an individual's alcholol tolerance.

Therein lies the issue, regardless of your weight, you may be fine at 1.0 BAC and may show no signs what so ever of even looking at alcohol in the last 24 hours, while your buddy maybe lazy eyed and staggering at .08 BAC.

EDIT: On a side note I personally think the OP's linked article is one sided and sensationalized, but most things media-wise these days are.
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Old 10-31-2007, 09:03 PM   #30
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Therein lies the issue, regardless of your weight, you may be fine at 1.0 BAC and may show no signs what so ever of even looking at alcohol in the last 24 hours, while your buddy maybe lazy eyed and staggering at .08 BAC.

Yeah, and heaven forbid we actually have laws that allow people to use their common sense when enforcing them.

But common sense is no longer common. Far from it.
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