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Old 10-04-2012, 09:23 PM   #1341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McGarnigle
Saying Pele wasn't man enough is stupid.
Agreed. At the time, most Leagues had limits on the number of foreign players per team. Very few clubs had money to splash out on international superstars before earning a lot of money through selling tv rights.
At the time Europe was still a pretty nationally (as opposed to continentally) focused place. Racism was still rampant and black players were subject to abuse from opposing sides' (and sometimes their own sides' supporters). Italy still has problems with racist chants, monkey noises and banana throwing. (See the Tottenham/Lazio Europa cup match a few weeks ago.) I think it's probably fair to say that Pele wouldn't have felt the grief was worth it.
Viewing the football world of 35 years ago like it was the same as today is ridiculous. The International transfer market barely existed. Spain was a dictatorship, the then First Division in England had nowhere near the money that the Premier league does today, Germany was still divided and Italy was (and still can be) ferociously xenophobic. Exactly where would he have played?
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Old 10-04-2012, 09:25 PM   #1342
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Went to see my Chicago Fire play the Philadelphia Union last night - they were celebrating the 15th anniversary of the club's formation on Oct. 8th, 1997. Brought Blanco, Chris Armas and Peter Nowak back to celebrate. Enjoyed a Lakefront New Grist, a Fat Tire and a Pilsner Urquell. And watched the Fire spit the bit with horrible defensive lapses as they went down 1-3. Two losses in a row - crap.

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Old 10-04-2012, 09:45 PM   #1343
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Vancouver gave Chivas USA a four-nil drubbing last night and played the best football I've seen them play. Not a weak link on the field. Finally. It was getting worrisome for a bit, there. Still too tight with Dallas, but our win ended Chivas', Portland's and Colorado's playoff aspirations all at once.

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Old 10-04-2012, 10:54 PM   #1344
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"Saying Pele wasn't man enough is stupid"

You know in all my 53 years on the planet, I have NEVER EVER read anywhere that "Pele wasn't Man enough to play in Europe" or anywhere else for that matter. I just have the feeling the guy posting never actually got to see him play, maybe wasn't even born when Pele played so has no real idea. But I've never seen those words before and never knew of anybody anywhere in the world that felt that way. I was fortunate to see him once in person as a Cosmos player, and I would NEVER make that kind of statement, especially after seeing him live.

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Old 10-05-2012, 03:41 PM   #1345
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It was a different world back then. Players mostly stayed in their home country. The South American leagues were therefore much better relative to today.
The market wasn´t what it is today but that´s not true, the really good ones move to Europe (hear about DiStefano??)

Agreed. At the time, most Leagues had limits on the number of foreign players per team. Very few clubs had money to splash out on international superstars before earning a lot of money through selling tv rights.
At the time Europe was still a pretty nationally (as opposed to continentally) focused place. Racism was still rampant and black players were subject to abuse from opposing sides' (and sometimes their own sides' supporters). Italy still has problems with racist chants, monkey noises and banana throwing. (See the Tottenham/Lazio Europa cup match a few weeks ago.) I think it's probably fair to say that Pele wouldn't have felt the grief was worth it.
Viewing the football world of 35 years ago like it was the same as today is ridiculous. The International transfer market barely existed. Spain was a dictatorship, the then First Division in England had nowhere near the money that the Premier league does today, Germany was still divided and Italy was (and still can be) ferociously xenophobic. Exactly where would he have played?

That limit still exists today... Spain was a dictorship of course General Franco´s team was Real Madrid, they had for example DiStefano and Puskas playing for them... Just take a peak at my location Ikno waht I´m talking about.

There wasn´t money in the 60´ and 70´ in Europe???? really?????? seriously?????
Where could he played??? Anyplacehw wanted: Pele said that he had offers from Real Madrid, Juventus, Manchester for instance the top three teams in the best three leagues at the moment.
Truth is he never leave Santos because he couldn´t play in Europe because he there was the chance for him of stoping being the king, competion in Europe was tougth in Brazil he has named national teasure: basicly nobody touched him

Another thing have you ever watched brazilian football??? take a lot of their courts and see and measure how big they are, at that time there were the biggest courts in the world, letting anybody run free without an obsesivve stopper behind them, In Europe football courts are smaller, that´s one of the reason brazilian football it´s all about individuality and european football it´s more tactic
You know in all my 53 years on the planet, I have NEVER EVER read anywhere that "Pele wasn't Man enough to play in Europe" or anywhere else for that matter. I just have the feeling the guy posting never actually got to see him play, maybe wasn't even born when Pele played so has no real idea. But I've never seen those words before and never knew of anybody anywhere in the world that felt that way. I was fortunate to see him once in person as a Cosmos player, and I would NEVER make that kind of statement, especially after seeing him live.

You haven´t seen or read enough about football then this discussion is something that I´ve been hearing for the last 20 years.

I´ve been involved in football my hole life this that is so exotic for you it´s a recurrent topic EVERYWHERE.

I wasn´t born when he was alive, don´t need to ¿or do I have to be 2000 years old to talk about Jesus for instance?
He was a great player but certanly not the king or the best player ever...
And guys Brazil league was nothing at the time compared to Europe... please both my grandfather and uncle were professional players... my hole family lives this sport... I´m not just talking or trying to troll.
But all this replies just tell me what I somehow already knew: you guys still need to learn a bit about the sport.

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Old 10-05-2012, 04:49 PM   #1346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obliviousbrew View Post
But all this replies just tell me what I somehow already knew: you guys still need to learn a bit about the sport.
And you need to learn a little bit about quoting posts, LOL. It's difficult to separate your comments from the others.

Yes, DiStefano played for Real Madrid. But that doesn't alter the gist of our comments. The gap between Europe and S.A was much less back then. There were more barriers to playing across borders (didn't the Brazilian gov't prevent Pele from leaving?). And there was far less money in the game.

To attribute Pele's decision to stay home to one of "manliness" is stupid and troll-ish.
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Old 10-05-2012, 04:54 PM   #1347
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"But all this replies just tell me what I somehow already knew: you guys still need to learn a bit about the sport."

And I really don't think you're the guy to teach us as nothing you've said impresses anyone that you possess an exceptional knowledge of the sport.

Every generation in sport has "their" superstar, currently it's Messi. 15 years from now... it will be somebody else. And that's not a knock on Messi, the guy is outstanding and a joy to watch.

And yes, I figured you weren't born when he played, by the way Pele is still alive last time I checked. Just saw him in the London Olympic Closing Ceremony.

Look, There's people who believe Mohamed Ali was the best boxer the world has seen and there's others who don't.

There's people who believe Wilt Chamberlin was the best basketball player ever, or Michael Jordon, or today Labron James. Just depends on what or who you grew up with or where you live.

And yes, you are a troll, or simply lack the understanding that each generation has it's "best" in sport and the media's job is to get you to believe today's star is better than a past star so you'll watch and read their articles.

I do think it's sad that you challenge a person's "manhood" implying he was fearful or weak as the reason he didn't do what you or your dad or grandfather "felt" he should have done. What's really funny is your using field size as a reason or rationale for your point. Let me know when they change the penalty area or goal size in a league and I might believe your point. The "pitch" no matter if it's small or big, is a rectangle with the same goals and PA. It's not like the Brazilian pitches were 50 meters wider and 25 meters longer than Spain's or Englands for example. Maybe check your FIFA laws of the game. The difference between minimum size and maximum size is 10 meters long and wide. So, while you feel you possess some superior knowledge of the game, your comments betray you. Yea, Pele was Pele because the fields in Brazil were 10 meters wider and 11 meters longer.......... So this really is the second argument I've never heard about why Pele was as good as he was... field size?

How old are you? I have this feeling I have studds that are much older than you.

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Old 10-05-2012, 05:06 PM   #1348
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Can we get back to Portland blowing goats and stop with the D measuring contest.

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Old 10-05-2012, 05:15 PM   #1349
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Well Chicago is going to need to shake off that bad loss if they're going to look good on network tv in a (probably) sold-out red bull arena.

Also, Portland at Seattle on ESPN in front of 66k+ is going to be nuts, with Portland clinching the Cascadia Cup with a win or draw.

Then there's LA vs RSL for the number two spot in the west.

It's a good weekend to be a domestic soccer fan.

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Old 10-05-2012, 05:57 PM   #1350
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Haha Portland winning the cup almost a laughable prospect.

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