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Old 03-06-2013, 11:12 PM   #21
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Also if I have you an estaminet and you asked for half off I would laugh at you and say good luck with that.
I wouldn't ask for 1/2 off when you are charging $60 an hour for plumbing. This seems like a fair hourly rate for a plumber. A 4 hour job would be $240 - not bad considering you have overhead costs and need to turn a profit.

I will ask for 1/2 off or more when the guy gives me a $9,000 estimate for a 22 square roof that takes a 6 man crew 8 hrs to put on.
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Old 03-06-2013, 11:19 PM   #22
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Down south a fair wage is determined by the pool of labors and how much they are willing to do the job for.

Juan that hangs out at the Home Depot will do a fine job slapping some shingles on and works for $12 an hour, takes one 10 min lunch break and doesn't complain. He works 7 days a week and always shows up.

Down here, $12 an hour is the going rate and is the fair wage.
I have a neighbor that went a similar route with an all spanish crew (the owner of course was not) for an addition recently. His house was robbed a few weeks after completion of the project. I have lived in this neighborhood 30yrs and that was the first break in we have ever seen. Look for honest, reasonable, trustworthy outfits, not the guys that hang out at home depot or post on craigslist.
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Old 03-06-2013, 11:24 PM   #23
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Down south a fair wage is determined by the pool of labors and how much they are willing to do the job for.

Juan that hangs out at the Home Depot will do a fine job slapping some shingles on and works for $12 an hour, takes one 10 min lunch break and doesn't complain. He works 7 days a week and always shows up.

John 6 pack wants $40 an hour, even if there is no work and he stays at home. He shows up hung over (if he shows up at all) Monday morning, works half as hard as Juan, demands a 1 hour lunch and two 15 min breaks.

Down here, $12 an hour is the going rate and is the fair wage.
I call bull$hit on that. You get what you pay for. You don't "slap" shingles on a roof and expect them to hold up over time.and wow how stereotypical that statement was. I'm betting Juan doesn't pull a permit for his work and half a$$es 80% of his work. He has know overhead because he has no insurance, license, or training more than what he saw on HGTV. I'm from NC a.k.a. The south and that is the biggest joke I have ever heard. Juan Mateo the job and leave know leaks but what happens 5 years from know and he is no where to be found. Ask yourself if you could live off 12$ an hr? That's less than 25,000 dollars a year. No one with a decent skill set works for that and does manual labor. People like you get taken advantage of because you get a deal of 12$ an hour then have to pa a real contractor double 5 years latter to fix what Juan did.
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Old 03-06-2013, 11:27 PM   #24
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I have a neighbor that went a similar route with an all spanish crew (the owner of course was not) for an addition recently. His house was robbed a few weeks after completion of the project. I have lived in this neighborhood 30yrs and that was the first break in we have ever seen. Look for honest, reasonable, trustworthy outfits, not the guys that hang out at home depot or post on craigslist.
Okay, there was one bad apple. There are a lot more sleazy laborers in the construction that are non Hispanic.

I had granite counter tops put in a couple years ago. 4 Mexicans showed up, worked like hell never came back to rob me. When they left I said te gusta cerveza? using the little bit of Spanish I know. I gave them a case of beer and they walked away smiling.

As you can probably tell, I favor migrant workers because they represent the values and work ethic that use to be present in this country. Now we are all entitled. Most of these guys work hard, long hours for very little and never complain.
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Old 03-06-2013, 11:28 PM   #25
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I call bull$hit on that. You get what you pay for. You don't "slap" shingles on a roof and expect them to hold up over time.and wow how stereotypical that statement was. I'm betting Juan doesn't pull a permit for his work and half a$$es 80% of his work. He has know overhead because he has no insurance, license, or training more than what he saw on HGTV. I'm from NC a.k.a. The south and that is the biggest joke I have ever heard. Juan Mateo the job and leave know leaks but what happens 5 years from know and he is no where to be found. Ask yourself if you could live off 12$ an hr? That's less than 25,000 dollars a year. No one with a decent skill set works for that and does manual labor. People like you get taken advantage of because you get a deal of 12$ an hour then have to pa a real contractor double 5 years latter to fix what Juan did.
I'm not trying to be a dic* but I get super frustrated when people want an easy cheap person and they don't give the work to the people who do the job the right way by getting a pm it inspection and have insurance. Sorry to be so negative.
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Old 03-06-2013, 11:31 PM   #26
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I call bull$hit on that. You get what you pay for. You don't "slap" shingles on a roof and expect them to hold up over time.and wow how stereotypical that statement was. I'm betting Juan doesn't pull a permit for his work and half a$$es 80% of his work. He has know overhead because he has no insurance, license, or training more than what he saw on HGTV. I'm from NC a.k.a. The south and that is the biggest joke I have ever heard. Juan Mateo the job and leave know leaks but what happens 5 years from know and he is no where to be found. Ask yourself if you could live off 12$ an hr? That's less than 25,000 dollars a year. No one with a decent skill set works for that and does manual labor. People like you get taken advantage of because you get a deal of 12$ an hour then have to pa a real contractor double 5 years latter to fix what Juan did.

I'm not trying to take any sides here, but say you pay WHOEVER $30/hr instead of $12/hr. Is $30 also an unreasonable wage? Then the $700 in his estimate goes to $1500 or so, to pay 6 workers for 8 hours of labor.

So, the $2900 in materials in labor increases to $3600, still leaving well over $5k to cover overhead and eek out a monstrous profit on a $9k quote.

Besides the $12/hr labor, what part of his estimate is wrong that could cause such a huge discrepancy?

Apparently I'm in the wrong business if I can be making $4k profit per day fixing roofs.
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Old 03-06-2013, 11:32 PM   #27
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I call bull$hit on that. You get what you pay for. You don't "slap" shingles on a roof and expect them to hold up over time.and wow how stereotypical that statement was. I'm betting Juan doesn't pull a permit for his work and half a$$es 80% of his work. He has know overhead because he has no insurance, license, or training more than what he saw on HGTV. I'm from NC a.k.a. The south and that is the biggest joke I have ever heard. Juan Mateo the job and leave know leaks but what happens 5 years from know and he is no where to be found. Ask yourself if you could live off 12$ an hr? That's less than 25,000 dollars a year. No one with a decent skill set works for that and does manual labor. People like you get taken advantage of because you get a deal of 12$ an hour then have to pa a real contractor double 5 years latter to fix what Juan did.
Yes, there is such thing as skilled labor but does it really take a roofing PHD to lay shingle?

BTW, where do these roofing companies that employ american workers exist in the south? Every time I see a crew, no matter the company, they are are not speaking English.
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Old 03-06-2013, 11:35 PM   #28
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Okay, there was one bad apple. There are a lot more sleazy laborers in the construction that are non Hispanic.

I had granite counter tops put in a couple years ago. 4 Mexicans showed up, worked like hell never came back to rob me. When they left I said te gusta cerveza? using the little bit of Spanish I know. I gave them a case of beer and they walked away smiling.

As you can probably tell, I favor migrant workers because they represent the values and work ethic that use to be present in this country. Now we are all entitled. Most of these guys work hard, long hours for very little and never complain.[/QUOTE]

This is the non licensed workers that take regular American jobs away from Americans. I know there are white people who will screw you out there and I'm not against Hispanic workers but I feel it's not fair that I have to pay 400-500$ per year to keep my plumbing license and classes to learn cutting edge techniques and pay 10000$ to have insurance to cover me if I forget to glue a sewer fitting and your basement gets destroyed. There are good Hispanic crews out there and there are bad ones, same as white or black guys, I just feel if you hire someone not legal to do the work (no license, not illegal immigrants) you help to run the little guys like me out of business.

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Old 03-06-2013, 11:36 PM   #29
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I'm not trying to take any sides here, but say you pay WHOEVER $30/hr instead of $12/hr. Is $30 also an unreasonable wage? Then the $700 in his estimate goes to $1500 or so, to pay 6 workers for 8 hours of labor.

So, the $2900 in materials in labor increases to $3600, still leaving well over $5k to cover overhead and eek out a monstrous profit on a $9k quote.

Besides the $12/hr labor, what part of his estimate is wrong that could cause such a huge discrepancy?

Apparently I'm in the wrong business if I can be making $4k profit per day fixing roofs.
Well, as techbrewie mentioned, this huge profit is built in to close the gap between the cheap well informed folks like myself and those willing to pay full price.
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Old 03-06-2013, 11:38 PM   #30
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Okay, there was one bad apple. There are a lot more sleazy laborers in the construction that are non Hispanic.

I had granite counter tops put in a couple years ago. 4 Mexicans showed up, worked like hell never came back to rob me. When they left I said te gusta cerveza? using the little bit of Spanish I know. I gave them a case of beer and they walked away smiling.

As you can probably tell, I favor migrant workers because they represent the values and work ethic that use to be present in this country. Now we are all entitled. Most of these guys work hard, long hours for very little and never complain.
That work ethic is still alive and well in this country. Immigrant workers are exploited as modern day slaves working for pennies on the dollar to Americans because they pack 10 of them in a 1 bedroom apartment and take their wages back to their country. Hiring a $12 an hour Juan Valdez is akin to Nike outsourcing their labor on sneakers to a sweat shop in China, it is part of what is ruining this country.
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