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Old 01-22-2013, 07:38 PM   #191
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Perhaps with the simplicity of the Hobbit, the departures are more stark.

Azog completely changed, Bilbo completely changed, Thorin, Balin, etc.,etc.

Gandalf sheepish and cowering, not tricking the trolls, not throwing colored flaming pine cones.

Goblin King suddenly a 3 story British Genius with a dark slap-stick sense of humor.

None of these changes make any sense to me.
How did Azog change?
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Old 01-22-2013, 08:11 PM   #192
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How did Azog change?
In the Book: Azog claimed rulership over Moria. He started the War of the Dwarves and Orcs in TA 2790 by beheading Thrór, who came to revisit the ruins of Khazad-dûm. In the following years, he was the common enemy of all dwarves, and the war he started had its climax in the Battle of Azanulbizar, where he killed Náin, only to be himself slain by Náin's son Dáin. His son, Bolg, inherited the reign in Moria and continued it for decades until his death at the Battle of the Five Armies. In fact,Azog is mentioned briefly in the novel The Hobbit by Gandalf, who says to Thorin, 'Your grandfather Thrór was killed, you remember, in the mines of Moria by Azog the Goblin,' to which Thorin responds 'Curse his name, yes'. Incidentally, this is the only place that Tolkien refers to Azog as a "goblin"; in other books such as The Lord of the Rings Tolkien describes him as a "great Orc."


In the Movie: well, everything is different.

http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Azog
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Old 01-22-2013, 08:15 PM   #193
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How did Azog change?
He wasn't dead. The making him white was also an embelishment but Azog was a great orc who killed Thror when Thror went to visit Khazad Dum and then started a 9 year war resulting in him killing Nain then Dain killing Azog (which IIRC Dain killing Azog was why the Moria Orcs marched to battle in the Battle of the 5 armies, hearing that Dain was on the march)
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:15 PM   #194
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Azog just wasn't white, didn't have a spike arm, didn't ever see Bilbo, wasn't in 95% of the place PJ put him.

That alone would have been fine with me. I was more put out by the unnecessary changes to Gandalf. The mountain troll scene could have been one of the best scenes in moviemaking history. Instaed we settle for a circus-like scene straight out of PJ's imagination.

Considering that there are 3 movies, and only so much that happened in the Hobbit, why change great scenes like that?

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Old 01-22-2013, 09:37 PM   #195
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Azog just wasn't white, didn't have a spike arm, didn't ever see Bilbo, wasn't in 95% of the place PJ put him.

That alone would have been fine with me. I was more put out by the unnecessary changes to Gandalf. The mountain troll scene could have been one of the best scenes in moviemaking history. Instaed we settle for a circus-like scene straight out of PJ's imagination.

Considering that there are 3 movies, and only so much that happened in the Hobbit, why change great scenes like that?
Well, you don't know if Azog was white or not. Nothing was mentioned of his appearance other than he was a great orc. So that that as it's definition. You are right he never met Bilbo. It was added movie jazz.

I don't think there were massive changes to Gandalf in all honesty. I mean yeah there were some but compared to the book there were massive changes in LOTR as well. I did not like the Troll scene but I don't think that it would have changed much more if it went the way of the book, it would have left some more mystery though and that would have been nice.

As far as the 3 movies, it's been touched on a few times. There will certainly be a fight for Dol Galdur which took place during the time of the Hobbit where they chase Sauron out and he flees to Mordor. Also I'm sure they will greatly expand on the Battle of the 5 armies, as you may or may not remember Bilbo gets knocked out relatively early in the fight. And I imagine they'll tell the whole tale of that. The next movie should be action packed. If it's chronological you should see Dol Galdur, you will meet Beorn (who I'll be interested in seeing how he is portrayed in the movie), then there's all the things that happen in Mirkwood, Giant Spiders, Elven palace, then the staying in Laketown, then of course going to the Lonely Mountain, and you haev to imagine since it's called the Desolation of Smaug that there will be the scene with Smaug and Bilbo which will be massively intense.

Then for the third movie at the very least you'll likely have the standoff with the Elves and man vs the Dwarves leading to the battle of the 5 armies later occuring which will probably be epic. After that I guess it will tell of Bilbo's return home, and who knows what else.
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:44 PM   #196
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I sincerely respect your opinion hhh, but I can sum it up like this:

In The HOBBIT the book, Gandalf was a mysterious, powerful, secretive BADASS.

Unquestionably the one that saved them again, and again, again.

In this movie, he was sarcastic, at times simpering and fawning, NOT the guy in charge in much of ANY scene, and seldom the one who saved them.

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Old 01-22-2013, 09:56 PM   #197
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I guess there's some truth to that. The problem with the mystery of Gandalf is that the LOTR came out. And since the movies came out first we know that Gandalf is a powerful wizard (if you know ME history a Maiar) and we know (at least if you read the book) he's a powerful ringbearer as well. So in comparison to the Hobbit which none of those facts were really known to the reader, they are known now. It's the issue when you have a book, then years later you write another book that totally changes the gravity of the original work. The Hobbit is a children's story, but LOTR brought Middle earth to a whole different level. Because of that, the Silmarillion, etc. you have all kinds of different issues with characters, history, and gravity. Gandalf going off an a mission or whatever in the books where he's gone from Beorn's house until right before the Battle of the 5 Armies has no real significance if you don't know the world around it and that they were meeting to ultimately decide if they are to chase the Necromancer out of Dol Galdur.

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Old 01-22-2013, 10:08 PM   #198
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Wife practically dragged me to see that. I think I enjoyed it more than she did in the end. And that ain't sayin much.
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Old 01-22-2013, 10:15 PM   #199
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I guess there's some truth to that. The problem with the mystery of Gandalf is that the LOTR came out. And since the movies came out first we know that Gandalf is a powerful wizard (if you know ME history a Maiar) and we know (at least if you read the book) he's a powerful ringbearer as well. So in comparison to the Hobbit which none of those facts were really known to the reader, they are known now. It's the issue when you have a book, then years later you write another book that totally changes the gravity of the original work. The Hobbit is a children's story, but LOTR brought Middle earth to a whole different level. Because of that, the Silmarillion, etc. you have all kinds of different issues with characters, history, and gravity. Gandalf going off an a mission or whatever in the books where he's gone from Beorn's house until right before the Battle of the 5 Armies has no real significance if you don't know the world around it and that they were meeting to ultimately decide if they are to chase the Necromancer out of Dol Galdur.
I agree. Tolkien wrote the Hobbit, then had to go back and tweak a few thing as it didn't line up with the whole story of Middle Earth once it was outlined. Overall the Hobbit is very weak on details and as mentioned earlier, is only from Bilbo's view, so while he is knocked out for Battle of 5 Armies, a huge epic battle occurs. No point in skipping the battle just because he was unconscious. Then sum the battle up in a paragraph. This is early Tolkien. Not the dedicate first 3 chapters to describe a coffee table Tolkien. It allows liberties to be taken when going to a movie.

They should just be more true to the book where they exist. Looking at you Radagast. Get out of my Hobbit.
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Old 01-22-2013, 10:28 PM   #200
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in the beginning of the movie, Bilbo's narration said he was going to tell the story "how it really happened...". classic movie makers way of telling the audience "this is not the book".

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