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Old 07-20-2008, 03:51 PM   #1
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Default Great news from Down Under

Hey Ya'll,

I'm back safe & sound from the Pecos Wilderness in New Mexico just catching up on emails & news and came across this little tidbit this morning.

It's good to be back, so lets kick things off on the right foot here in the Chit Chat section.

Quote:

No smoking hot spot

David Evans | July 18, 2008

I DEVOTED six years to carbon accounting, building models for the Australian Greenhouse Office. I am the rocket scientist who wrote the carbon accounting model (FullCAM) that measures Australia's compliance with the Kyoto Protocol, in the land use change and forestry sector.



Until now the global warming debate has merely been an academic matter of little interest. Now that it matters, we should debate the causes of global warming.


So far that debate has just consisted of a simple sleight of hand: show evidence of global warming, and while the audience is stunned at the implications, simply assert that it is due to carbon emissions.


In the minds of the audience, the evidence that global warming has occurred becomes conflated with the alleged cause, and the audience hasn't noticed that the cause was merely asserted, not proved.


If there really was any evidence that carbon emissions caused global warming, don't you think we would have heard all about it ad nauseam by now?


The world has spent $50 billion on global warming since 1990, and we have not found any actual evidence that carbon emissions cause global warming. Evidence consists of observations made by someone at some time that supports the idea that carbon emissions cause global warming. Computer models and theoretical calculations are not evidence, they are just theory.


What is going to happen over the next decade as global temperatures continue not to rise? The Labor Government is about to deliberately wreck the economy in order to reduce carbon emissions. If the reasons later turn out to be bogus, the electorate is not going to re-elect a Labor government for a long time. When it comes to light that the carbon scare was known to be bogus in 2008, the ALP is going to be regarded as criminally negligent or ideologically stupid for not having seen through it. And if the Liberals support the general thrust of their actions, they will be seen likewise.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24036736-7583,00.html
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Old 07-20-2008, 04:14 PM   #2
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Pecos Wilderness is a great place, it's almost like the Alaska wilderness if you get up there this time of year.

You know im not going to sit here and deny "global warming," but I am not sure we are very clear on exactly what it is doing. Is it going to warm up the ice caps and cool down other parts of the world? Is it going to melt the caps and change a few weather paterns? Is it going to give us all massive sunburn when we go outside and kill everything on earth?
It seems everyone you hear has a different outcome or no outcome at all. If global warming is a huge as we are led to belive then there will be huge changes going on. Imo we may for example loose farmland in one region while we gain farmland in another. Some animals will die off/adapt but other species will flourish now.

There is a gigantic push here in the US for energy dependence via renewable recources. Al Gore says 10 years(of course he said 10 years 3 years ago so it's really 7 years for him) to do a 100% change over. Look oil prices are going up, they will probably continue to the point where no one can afford it. At that time people will start to say ahh well lets use these electric cars more. If there is neccessity, if there is a cheaper/more efficiant product out there people will buy it. We are seeing more and more hybrid cars on the road every day here, not because goverment wants it, because people see the need for it.
For the government to give it's people a timetable and tell them we will all be dead if we don't do this in X time when you really don't have mutch evidence behind it is just riddicoulous. Hell I would love to run my house on solar/wind power but my workstations would draw far more power than then solor/wind could produce economicaly. Give me a good alternative before you give me a timetable.

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Old 07-20-2008, 04:18 PM   #3
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Yep, the climate changes all the time and there's nothing we can do about it but adapt to it.

To think that Man is causing it and actually has the ability to change it is the ultimate arrogance. We've wasted billions of dollars and achieved nothing so far.

What if that money would have been used to help developing nations adapt to the changing climate instead of throwing it down AlGore's black hole?

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Old 07-20-2008, 04:42 PM   #4
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When dinosaurs were walking the earth in tropical regions of Canada, Alaska, and Siberia, there must have been BILLION of humans driving their cars around creating huge "carbon footprints." Similarly, coming out of the last ice age, there must have been massive carbon ouput to heat the earth so much.

It's ridiculous to think that the natural heating and cooling cycles that the earth undergoes are triggered by humans. Strangely enough, other planets are heating at the same or greater rates than earth(and these planets don't even have people driving around in hummers taking their kids to school), and these heating and cooling cycles are linked to solar activity.

And who is to say that this is the "right" temperature for earth? People are concerned that the temperature is changing, but that presupposes that there is an optimum temperature for earth, and this is it. During the warming period of the middle ages when the earth warmed a few degrees, crop yields rose dramatically, and this allowed for population increase. It's absurd to expect that the temperature of earth is going to remain a constant throughout time, isn't it better that the earth WARMS a little than cools? This should help struggling nations produce enough food to feed their populations, even more important given the shift towards organic fuel sources other than oil.

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Old 07-20-2008, 04:46 PM   #5
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+1 .......

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Old 07-20-2008, 04:49 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Laurel View Post
And who is to say that this is the "right" temperature for earth
People who want want to cripple the economy and blame it on capitalism. It's their new "religion" all in the interest of control, power, and money.
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Old 07-20-2008, 04:49 PM   #7
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I absolutley believe that global warming exists, I just don't think that humans are responsible for it. Fossil fuels may speed the process up by a couple of hundred years, which is nothing on the timescale that I'm talking about (millions of years).

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Old 07-20-2008, 05:02 PM   #8
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I absolutley believe that global warming exists, I just don't think that humans are responsible for it.
and I'm not sure it's a bad thing. in Eastern Colorado, we are in the middle of the worst drought since the dust bowl days. A little rain forest climate couldn't hurt us a bit. And with the way people are repr0ducing like Rabbits, we have more and more people to feed on an ever shrinking land base. (The more people, the more houses= less farm ground)
A longer growing season and more plentiful rainfall could be God (or mother nature, or whatever you believe in) making sure we are able to sustain the additional population.
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Old 07-20-2008, 05:21 PM   #9
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Ed, I think you're losing your touch. It's almost been 1.5 hours since you started this thread and no one's crushing your logic. The EdWort I know would have had this thread locked by now!

I'm afraid I have to disappoint you further by agreeing. There is clearly evidence of global warming. I'm no climatologist, but there is enough data in the public realm to reasonably come to this conclusion. But as has been stated here numerous times, I don't believe there's enough (or perhaps any) publicly available evidence to prove it's caused by human carbon emissions.

As a man of science myself, If I made the kinds of correlations without real evidence that Al Gore and other alarmists have made at my place of work, I'd be laughed out of the room. For example, every day I take a dump the sun rises.......Does that mean my bowel movements are crucial to the Earth's continued rotation? Just because two things appear to happen at the same time does not make them a cause-and-effect relationship.

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Old 07-20-2008, 05:28 PM   #10
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BigKahuna thats exactly what im trying to say, maybe this "global warming thing" isint such a bad event afterall. Our monsoon season here in NM this year is going very very strong. Just had our house flooded a bit actually. You know people like Al Gore are going to keep saying 10 years left untill they die and no one will point out hmm he was saying 10 years 30 years ago.

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Two days into my last batch made and the scent of the farts of a thousand rhinos is permeating the basement...

Life is good...
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