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Old 04-27-2012, 07:26 PM   #11
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I assumed the person with the latin phrase in his signature their logical fallacies...
I believe you are missing my point, but, that may be my fault, as it was earlier.
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Old 04-27-2012, 09:08 PM   #12
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hopsalot,

The thing you are missing here is that centrifuges are good for 2 things...yes they help clarify the beer, but they also allow brewers to get more beer out of every batch...this is a considerable amount. I have a good friend that is the head brewer at a lager regional brewery and he just got one and raves about the increase in sellable beer from every batch, nay a word about clarity.

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Old 04-30-2012, 01:38 PM   #13
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that is a good point, more beer for all! but I still perfer unfiltered beer

CHEERS

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Old 04-30-2012, 03:40 PM   #14
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What's the logic here?

A. BMC is bad beer.
B. BMC uses centrifuges
C. Any brewery that uses centrifuges makes bad beer.

It could just as easily be:
A. BMC is bad beer.
C. BMC uses yeast.
C. Any brewery that uses yeast makes bad beer.


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Old 07-27-2012, 12:26 PM   #15
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So is the argument unfiltered vs filtered? I'm not one to care very much about clarity, but there is something to say about a beautifully clear, clean beer. If it's cloudy I'll still drink the **** out of it. The truth is, I'd rather centrifuge over filtering any day. Plate filters introduce trace amounts of oxygen to a beer and they strip away a lot of the hop aroma. A centrifuge is a completely sealed vessel that allows brewers to remove large amounts of yeas, trub, and hops in suspension. It does not, however, make for a filtered beer. In fact, when using a centrifuge, there are still yeast cells left in suspension after the process, just that there aren't very many left. Centrifuge gives you the closest thing to an unfiltered beer (because technically it is) that you can find without clarifying at all.

The amount yielded is far greater with a centrifuge, too.

Look at it this way: A brewery makes an IPA, they put it in a brite tank, carb it up, bottle it, ship it out. It sits on a shelf un-refrigerated for a month. Notice there was no filtering or running through a centrifuge in this example. The yeast in suspension wake up again and slowly eat away at trace amounts of sugars still in the IPA. This can possibly result in an over carbonated bottle or possible bottle explosions. The way around that is to use really strong bottles and corks.

When using a filter there are tons of downsides. When using a centrifuge you can package and ship a stable product every time. Honestly, the centrifuge is less about clarity and more about yields and stable packaged product.

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Old 07-27-2012, 12:34 PM   #16
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.

Look at it this way: A brewery makes an IPA, they put it in a brite tank, carb it up, bottle it, ship it out. It sits on a shelf un-refrigerated for a month. Notice there was no filtering or running through a centrifuge in this example. The yeast in suspension wake up again and slowly eat away at trace amounts of sugars still in the IPA. This can possibly result in an over carbonated bottle or possible bottle explosions. The way around that is to use really strong bottles and corks.
I think this is a a non-issue, regardless of if a centrifuge step is employed. Residual sugar that is able to be fermented and present after bottling would imply that the beer is under-fermented, otherwise that sugar would have been fermented in the first place.

Non-filtered beers are still stable in bottles at room temp if they have been fermented properly (as all homebrewers can attest to!).
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Old 07-27-2012, 12:55 PM   #17
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There's one arguement I rarely hear being made, and I feel it's a rather important one.

Imagine you're the head brewer at a local craft brewery, and you're in a conversation with the head brewer from a BMC company. Could you honestly tell them to their face that they don't make good beer? Not questioning your manliness or anything. They produce a consistent product on a massive scale, and they sell a lot. A LOT.

The point is that it's hard to make the arguement to someone who sells more beer in a year than you could make in a decade. If I were the head brewer I would laugh in your face and say "My beer is bad? Oh? Tell that to the 18 million barrels of beer I sold last year. Let me know how that works out for you."

Is the beer any good? Well... After a long day of hard work, the first sip is refreshing. But that's about it. I'm just saying that you can't really think that your opinion of one step in a long brewing process outweighs science, professional opinion, millions of product sold, and craft brewerys attempt to make their beer more marketable. If anything, I promote the idea of craft beer being more marketable. Maybe it will force the people who make similar looking, worse tasting beer to step it up.

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Old 07-27-2012, 01:27 PM   #18
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There's one arguement I rarely hear being made, and I feel it's a rather important one.

Imagine you're the head brewer at a local craft brewery, and you're in a conversation with the head brewer from a BMC company. Could you honestly tell them to their face that they don't make good beer? Not questioning your manliness or anything. They produce a consistent product on a massive scale, and they sell a lot. A LOT.

The point is that it's hard to make the arguement to someone who sells more beer in a year than you could make in a decade. If I were the head brewer I would laugh in your face and say "My beer is bad? Oh? Tell that to the 18 million barrels of beer I sold last year. Let me know how that works out for you."

Is the beer any good? Well... After a long day of hard work, the first sip is refreshing. But that's about it. I'm just saying that you can't really think that your opinion of one step in a long brewing process outweighs science, professional opinion, millions of product sold, and craft brewerys attempt to make their beer more marketable. If anything, I promote the idea of craft beer being more marketable. Maybe it will force the people who make similar looking, worse tasting beer to step it up.

Anyone who homebrews should appreciate the amount of work it takes for companies like BMC to make that consistent of a product. Then there is a snotty "BMC beers suck because they don't make an IPA" crowd, which I pretty much ignore.

I know all about the stuff that came out in "Beer Wars", but that is business. I have a hard time that Sam Adams wouldn't be trying to choke out breweries like Stone Brewing if they had the chance to do so (To take the analogy of big vs. little guy in the craft brew market).

That being said, BMC sells a metric f*ckton of beer, but their growth is flat. The craft-brew market grew something like 12% last year (in a bad economy to boot). That says something about how tastes are changing.
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Old 07-27-2012, 05:39 PM   #19
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Anyone who homebrews should appreciate the amount of work it takes...BMC sells a metric f*ckton of beer, but their growth is flat. The craft-brew market grew something like 12% last year
+1 and Amen.

We need tastes to change, and I know people are moving appreciate local and "craft/artisan/home made..." products. CSA's are increasingly popular, and I've heard my LHBS is very busy.

I'll be interested to see whether or not this trend means that craft beer is going to steal the market, or the big guns learn to make their beers "craft style". Though it's easy to see which would be preferred.

Last night I had a Guiness Black Lager. It said "Cold Brewed" on the label. Does that terminology bother anyone else?
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Old 07-27-2012, 07:32 PM   #20
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hopsalot,

The thing you are missing here is that centrifuges are good for 2 things...yes they help clarify the beer, but they also allow brewers to get more beer out of every batch...this is a considerable amount. I have a good friend that is the head brewer at a lager regional brewery and he just got one and raves about the increase in sellable beer from every batch, nay a word about clarity.
+1 we recently had the night brewer from Summit Brewing at my homebrew club and he said they are getting ready to bring online their centrifuge. He was ecstatic at the amount of recovered beer they would be able to get and increased hop aroma that would not be stripped out by the filters. (they use DE filters which are even worse than pad filters so I hear) He said it would help the company by improving output and reducing the amount of hops needed for each batch. Sounds like a good business strategy and focus on quality to me. There is a place for purists (i.e. Cantillion, Boon, etc) but I enjoy having an afordable daily drinker as well!
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