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Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Community > General Chit Chat > Is "borrowing" wireless wrong?
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Old 01-04-2013, 06:38 AM   #161
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I'm in full agreement that I can't force it on anyone. What disappoints me is that that point should even come up because it seems that fundamental to a functional society. Don't take what isn't yours. It's really beyond my comprehension why this seems to be a point of contention.
You're entitled to that opinion, but your also treating it like a hard consumable asset in most of your comparisons (apples etc).

What if I was in my garage with the door open and I was watched a blacked out game on nfl Subday ticket. You walk by on the sidewalk and glance at my tv and see who's playing and the score. Did you just take what wasn't yours? Shouldn't you have averted your eyes?

Here's another one for you, it's 105 out and your walking down the sidewalk. I have my sprinklers on and the water is hitting the sidewalk. Are you contributing to societal decline if you stand on the sidewalk and enjoy the refreshing mist for a few minutes, because the water wasn't yours?
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Old 01-04-2013, 06:42 AM   #162
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What if you use this forum but don't become a paying member

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Old 01-04-2013, 06:43 AM   #163
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What if you use this forum but don't become a paying member
Then you miss out on the glory that is the boneyard, duh.
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Old 01-04-2013, 06:44 AM   #164
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Then you miss out on the glory that is the boneyard, duh.
Actually, I keep assuming this thread will get swiped into Debate, and whoaru99 will not have access. That would end it since he's buoying the thing anyway.
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Old 01-04-2013, 06:47 AM   #165
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You're entitled to that opinion, but your also treating it like a hard consumable asset in most of your comparisons (apples etc).
It is, for me, and for more than 64% of broadband subscribers. Admittedly though, I never get close to my cap limit, but I paid for every single one of those 2.147e+12 bits.
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Old 01-04-2013, 06:48 AM   #166
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That's a terrible analogy and completely irrelevant to the situation.

I personally would use a neighbors open wifi in a pinch, but I wouldn't use it permanently as my primary source of Internet and I certainly wouldn't use it in a manner that would impact their quality of service.
I was going to post up a longer response but there's not much point. This is not borrowing, it's theft. It would be borrowing if the OP asked the neighbor with the WAP (unprotected) if he could jump onto it. Since that's not been done, it's theft. Doesn't matter how you try to justify it or claim you're not costing them anything or doing harm. Stealing is still stealing. IMO, it shows how bad this country has gotten when people cannot see that. Or think it's fine since it appears to be a victimless crime. IF you really need to get online that bad, and your home connection is down, and you have no alternative that YOU pay for, then go someplace which advertises 'Free WiFi' for use. Or ask the bloody neighbor if you can suck on their internet pipe.

BTW, I'm done with this thread so
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Old 01-04-2013, 03:25 PM   #167
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What if you use this forum but don't become a paying member
ZOMG THAT'S A TERRIBLE ANALOGY YOU IGNORANT NAZI PORNOGRAPHER!!!

Ahem, uh, er, excuse me.


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This is not borrowing, it's theft. [...] Stealing is still stealing.
No, it really is not theft nor stealing. It might be illegal and it might be wrong (or it might be both), but it's not nearly as simple as applying a concept that was developed for physical objects to information or its ephemeral representations.

You can't simply write off the victimless nature that many cases have as irrelevant. Well, you can, but that means you're not really thinking about why something is right or wrong, you're just blindly following a rule that you picked up somewhere. In 99.9% or more of these cases, no one is inconvenienced.

Ok, so a few kb of whoaru's cap are used up by a stranger, but unless he actually approaches that cap, it's going to reset in a month or two and there is literally no consequence. What is it that makes this ethically wrong?

Ok, so maybe you are accessing the ISP's network without authorization. This isn't obviously the case---the owner of the wireless AP is authorized, and he's permitting anyone who attempts to connect to his network to forward packets through his authorized connection. It's unclear, legally at least, whether or not you're authorized to do this---it's not at all obvious that you are making unauthorized access. But, again, other than the possibility that you're violating a ToS agreement, what is it that makes this access unethical?

"It just ain't right" is not an argument. Acceptance of it as one, and god forbid a convincing one, is a more troubling sign for the future of a civilization than a rational debate about the ethics of a new technology.
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Old 01-04-2013, 04:47 PM   #168
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"It just ain't right" is not an argument. Acceptance of it as one, and god forbid a convincing one, is a more troubling sign for the future of a civilization than a rational debate about the ethics of a new technology.
Bravo. I am not surprised with the major disagreement in this thread, but I am surprised that a few people see it as so "obvious". One can easily make a plausible argument that people who allow their wireless to invade another persons home or property are breaking a law themselves, whether the signal is locked or not. What of the people who still believe wireless signals cause cancer? Too bad for them?

Do I agree with this? Not at all, but I'd be interested in hearing someone defend that position, I wouldn't just say "jeez why is this even an issue? Mankind is a failure obviously!"
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Old 01-04-2013, 05:51 PM   #169
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If the owness is on me to implement security to protect myself from your piggybacking, if I'm concerned about it, does it not follow that the owness is on you to seek refuge in a Faraday cage to protect yourself from my EMI/RFI, if you are concerned about that?

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Old 01-04-2013, 05:54 PM   #170
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Should I even bring up the fact that on my old laptop my device would roam and reconnect to the network with the most bars and least restrictions. Sometimes it would hop off my password protected network to jump on some local linksys network and then jump back. That wasnt my choice, it was the way the device was set up to work.

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