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zeg · 01-04-2013, 02:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airborneguy

I don't know if you skipped ahead, but we went further into it and my reasoning changed in later posts. That said, I'm not one to go back and edit my posts if I'm later proven wrong or something changes.

Ok, I skimmed the later posts but didn't read in great detail who was saying what. If we're agreeing now, great. I wasn't quoting you to argue with you so much as to comment on that general point.

**whoaru99** · 01-04-2013, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airborneguy

Apparently it isn't where I live. I plan on clarifying for academic purposes, but let's just say I'm pretty familiar with the NYS penal law, and according to what I read, they refer to networks specifically.

As I'm sure you well know, getting the right answer has a lot to do with asking the right question. Or, perhaps getting the answer you want is a matter of asking the right question.

So, when you seek clarification, I'd appreciate looking at it from a couple aspects -

Connecting to the wi-fi
Accessing the network
Using the ISP/content

Point being, if one asks simply "is it illegal to connect to my neighbor's wi-fi ?" may provide a completely different answer than "is it illegal to connect to my neighbor's wi-fi to access my neighbor's network to use his ISP without permission?".

**Airborneguy** · 01-04-2013, 02:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeg

Ok, I skimmed the later posts but didn't read in great detail who was saying what. If we're agreeing now, great. I wasn't quoting you to argue with you so much as to comment on that general point.

No arguing here either, just wanted to clarify. From what you wrote I could tell you hadn't read everything after.

zeg · 01-04-2013, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whoaru99

The link seems to cite both federal law as an absolute no-no. but goes on to say even though it's probably illegal it's not really enforced unless you do something really bad with it and someone makes the effort to hunt you down.

It is true that it's generally not enforced very enthusiastically, and that the odds of even being investigated, let alone charged and prosecuted, are near zero. However, that doesn't make it legal.

I had a look through half a dozen or so of the laws cited in post #22, and to my reading (not formally trained, but fairly practiced reading laws), simply borrowing wifi is or might be illegal, depending on how various technically vague terms are interpreted.

**Airborneguy** · 01-04-2013, 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whoaru99

As I'm sure you well know, getting the right answer has a lot to do with asking the right question. Or, perhaps getting the answer you want is a matter of asking the right question.

So, when you seek clarification, I'd appreciate looking at it from a couple aspects -

Connecting to the wi-fi
Accessing the network
Using the ISP/content

Point being, if one asks simply "is it illegal to connect to my neighbor's wi-fi ?" may provide a completely different answer than "is it illegal to connect to my neighbor's wi-fi to access my neighbor's network to use his ISP without permission?".

According to NYS law, it would clearly be illegal to access the neighbor's network, I said that earlier. But as I read it, I wouldn't be illegal to use his wireless connection merely to access the internet, which is public. You're defining what you want to hear, which is what you seem to be slyly accusing me of in the first part of this post.

Quite frankly, I don't feel the need to clarify anything for you because the continued tone of your posts hasn't given me reason to care about your opinion of me or my morals. I'm going to inquire with my friend, but that's for my own information.

**Airborneguy** · 01-04-2013, 02:57 AM

To add another point...

Many commonly owned modern devices automatically connect to open networks that they detect. Upon who does the burden lie in this type of situation?

zeg · 01-04-2013, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airborneguy

No arguing here either, just wanted to clarify. From what you wrote I could tell you hadn't read everything after.

I read enough to see that there was still some debate going on, but it can be hard to keep track of who's on which side that I usually just stick with the first decent quote that I agree/disagree with, even if it's a bit out of date. I guess my half-baked theory is that it starts to put my PoV in some sort of context (and I'm lazy).

**pickles** · 01-04-2013, 02:58 AM

I know zero about data stuff; but I thought that unless you have a DSL connection then wouldn't usage on your own network affect the neighbors available bandwidth? If so, why would it matter if you're using your own or the neighbors, in terms of bandwidth, etc. this assumes that the OP and neighbor both have Crapcom or whatever it was referred to as.

zeg · 01-04-2013, 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airborneguy

To add another point...

Many commonly owned modern devices automatically connect to open networks that they detect. Upon who does the burden lie in this type of situation?

"Knowingly" or "willfully" seem to be common sorts of terms to describe the kinds of access that are made illegal. I imagine these would prevent accidental access like this from being illegal (although I think that's an awful behavior for a device for a number of other reasons).

zeg · 01-04-2013, 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pickles

I know zero about data stuff; but I thought that unless you have a DSL connection then wouldn't usage on your own network affect the neighbors available bandwidth? If so, why would it matter if you're using your own or the neighbors, in terms of bandwidth, etc. this assumes that the OP and neighbor both have Crapcom or whatever it was referred to as.

A few reasons it might:

* Most ISPs monitor bandwidth, and many cap or charge fees if you exceed some amount. Your access through their connection would affect this.
* Your activities would appear to come from their IP address, possibly creating confusion (or legal issues if you were to do anything illegal),
* Even if your outbound bandwidth is shared, you may interfere with traffic on their local network (e.g., if they're streaming video from a local server to a laptop)

In reality, unless you're doing something illegal, there's almost never a real problem. In principle, it's possible, though.