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Old 05-07-2013, 06:04 PM   #21
theveganbrewer
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Originally Posted by ArcaneXor View Post
I am more and more convinced that they are different styles. CDAs tend to have a more pronounced malt backbone and roastiness, whereas Black IPAs/American Dark Ales are basically... black IPAs - same recipe as an IPA with a dehusked roasted malt added.
I thought it was the other way around. Every Black IPA I've tasted was malty, sweet, and roasty. The best CDAs I've had have been basically what you described as a black IPA.
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:51 AM   #22
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Regardless of what they are called I want to make one. Vegan, you wouldn't be willing to post a recipe for those of us outside Oregon would you?

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Old 05-08-2013, 01:06 AM   #23
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Regardless of what they are called I want to make one. Vegan, you wouldn't be willing to post a recipe for those of us outside Oregon would you?
Sure, the recipe is in my sig with notes on what I'm going to change on the next round. Minor adjustments.
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Old 05-08-2013, 01:07 AM   #24
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I thought it was the other way around. Every Black IPA I've tasted was malty, sweet, and roasty. The best CDAs I've had have been basically what you described as a black IPA.
This is why it is good it isn't a recognized style. Whatever name or guidelines they give it will piss off the other half of the brewers and lock the style down. What happens next year when people are brewing "black imperial ipa's", "black belgian ipas", "black white ipas", "black english ipas", "cascadian dark wheat beers", etc? If anything they should combine some of the styles not make new ones. If you love CDAs, brew them. If you want to enter them, isn't category 23 just filled with Black IPA/CDAs these days anyways?
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Old 05-08-2013, 01:11 AM   #25
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This is why it is good it isn't a recognized style. Whatever name or guidelines they give it will piss off the other half of the brewers and lock the style down. What happens next year when people are brewing "black imperial ipa's", "black belgian ipas", "black white ipas", "black english ipas", "cascadian dark wheat beers", etc? If anything they should combine some of the styles not make new ones. If you love CDAs, brew them. If you want to enter them, isn't category 23 just filled with Black IPA/CDAs these days anyways?
I don't know about competitions, this was the first one I've entered. I brewed this to the Cascadian Dark Ale category standards as listed on the competition's website. Here's what they had:

Here’s a look at the Cascadian Dark Ale style as described by Brewer’s Association. It’s a little bit different than your Black IPA guidelines and tends to be less roasty and more citrusy. (Continue down for recipe, results, and tasting notes)

Cascadian Dark Ale:

IBUs: 60-90+
Color: 40+ SRM
OG: 1.060-1.075 (15-18 P)
FG: 1.008-1.016 (2-4 P)
ABV: 6-7.75%

Aroma: Prominent NW hop aromas: citrus, pine, resinous, sweet malt, hints of roast, toast, chocolate malt, and/or Carafa back-up the hops. Dry hopped character is often present. No diacetyl, esters generally range from low to none. Though the resinous, piney, and citrus hop aroma generally comes from NW American hop varieties, hops of other origins may be used to achieve this character.

Appearance: Deep brown to black with ruby highlights. Head varies from white to tan/khaki, and is generally long-lasting.

Flavor: A balance between piney, citrus-like and spicy NW hop flavor, bitterness, caramel malt,and roast, chocolate, or Carafa-type malts. Roast character ranges from subtle to medium. Black malt is acceptable at low levels, but should
not be astringent. Intense ashy, burnt character is not appropriate. Caramel malt is acceptable at low levels but the finish should be dry. Diacetyl should not be present. Emphasis should be on hop flavor, which when combined with roast/black malts often exhibits a minty, spicy character.

Mouthfeel: Light to medium, hop bitterness and tannins from roast malts combine to create a dry mouthfeel. Resinous character from high levels of dry hopping may create a tongue coating sensation.

Overall Impression: A highly-hopped, medium-bodied dark ale, similar in many ways to a strong version of American IPA, except that it incorporates dark malts and signature NW hop varieties, sometimes in conjunction with fruity esters. Bitterness and body is much closer to an IPA balance than a strong ale or American stout. Finish is a nuanced interplay of hop and roast bitterness to create a dry quenching impression. Alcohol can accentuate the roast character in stronger
versions.
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Old 05-08-2013, 01:13 AM   #26
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Sure, the recipe is in my sig with notes on what I'm going to change on the next round. Minor adjustments.
Ah. I check on my phone so I don't see signatures. This is going in for my next brew.
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Old 05-08-2013, 01:19 AM   #27
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And the BJCP has the American-style India black ale. Their description:

American-stlye India Black Ale has medium high to high hop bitterness, flavor and aroma with medium-high alcohol content,
balanced with a medium body. The style is further characterized by a moderate degree of caramel malt character and medium to
strong dark roasted malt flavor and aroma. High astringency and high degree of burnt roast malt character should be absent. Fruity,
floral and herbal character from hops of all origins may contribute to aroma and flavor.

Original Gravity (ºPlato) 1.056-1.075 (14-18.2 ºPlato) ● Apparent Extract/Final Gravity (ºPlato) 1.012-1.018 (3-4.5 ºPlato) ●
Alcohol by Weight (Volume) 5-6% (6 -7.5%) ● Bitterness (IBU) 50-70 ● Color SRM (EBC) 25+ (50+ EBC)

Key differences are the amount of roast and the types of hop aroma. The American IBA has more caramel and dark roasted malt and fruity, herbal hops. The CDA would have less roast, citrusy hops, and possibly more bitterness and alcohol content.

I don't see a problem having the two styles, I think they are significantly different. Maybe a stickup is more a line of thought that for example there's 1 IPA category, doesn't matter if you have fruity hops or citrus hops, it's still an IPA. You can have an IPA with a lot of crystal malt, or one with none, still an IPA.

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Old 05-08-2013, 02:17 PM   #28
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I thought it was the other way around. Every Black IPA I've tasted was malty, sweet, and roasty. The best CDAs I've had have been basically what you described as a black IPA.
I think you're right and I was confused. I think we'll agree that there are definitely regional differences.

As for the Black IPA name, it doesn't really bother me, but I think American Dark Ale/American Hoppy Dark are good compromise names.

For the BJCP, they should just create a specialty IPA category that would include Black IPAs, White IPAs, Belgian IPAs and all the other variations that are not covered by the existing styles.
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Old 05-17-2013, 12:39 AM   #29
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I just got back from brewing this on the 15bbl system. I just want to say thank you to Ted, the Oregon Brew Crew, and Danny at Buckman Botanical Brewing for putting together one heck of a homebrew competition. What a great experience. Hope all of you hop heads come out for launch night on June 19th. There's about 50 pounds of hops in this batch!

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Old 05-17-2013, 02:06 PM   #30
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Woo Hoo! It was my pleasure. That's my first competition put together from scratch with me at the helm, and it was quite a ride. I'm glad we found such a truly delicious beer, and can't wait to try it from the taps. Congrats again, Daniel. Hope brew day was awesome.

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