The Great Bottle Opener Giveaway

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Electric Brewing > Wiring Help - PID / SSR Issues

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 11-28-2012, 01:24 AM   #1
jmrieger
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Washington, Mi
Posts: 16
Default Wiring Help - PID / SSR Issues

Hello all,

I just finished wiring up my small panel today for my brewery, which currently consists of a single 15-gallon BIAB setup. I have a 240V dryer outlet adjacent to my brewing area, making it quite convenient to hook everything up and brew inside.

Anyway, the problem that I'm having is my heating element seems to stick on. To clarify, say I'm in manual mode (Auber SYL-2352). If I set the level to, say, 5-25%, it operates as I would expect it to, and I can hear the heating element cycle on and off. If I set it to a value barely higher than that, it gets stuck on at 100%, and the only way to get it to turn back off is to kill power to the entire panel (or remove the heating element connector). If I remove the element, then re-plug it in with the manual value at less than 25%, it again cycles as expected.

I have the same issue in automatic mode; basically once I get above that 25% mark the heater just sticks on.

I've done some basic troubleshooting, including making sure that there are no exposed wires that would be randomly shorting out. I know the SSR isn't permanently failed in the open position, as it functions correctly at lower manual values (or stays completely off if I set the manual percentage to 0%).

Any ideas as to why it would be sticking open? Bad SSR? Did I mess up my wiring somehow (diagram attached)?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Joe

PS: My parts list is:

PID: Auber SYL-2352
SSR: Fotek SSR-40DA-H (w/ heat sink)
Heating Element Wired Through a Switchcraft HPCC4F (from another thread here)
RTD probe: Auber PT100-C (Tri clamp w/ pre-wired quick disconnect)

brewery_panel_diagram.png  
__________________
jmrieger is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-28-2012, 01:30 AM   #2
BadNewsBrewery
Basement Brewer
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
BadNewsBrewery's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Severn, MD
Posts: 1,068
Liked 108 Times on 89 Posts
Likes Given: 36

Default

Is the green line a ground or neutral? The 240v plug for the element should have a true ground, but the PID shouldn't be powered by HOT A and a ground. This is a bad combination.

I'd guess your heating issue may be with settings in the PID - have you double checked?

__________________
Building a Bad News Brewery - eHERMS

2014:
5gal Scottish Wee Heavy
5gal Saison
15gal American Pale Ale
20gal Belgian Wit (10 dumped)


Keg 1: Apfelwein
Keg 2: Belgian Wit (Failure)
Keg 3: American Pale Ale
Fermenting: Belgian Wit (Take 2)
BadNewsBrewery is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-28-2012, 01:40 AM   #3
jmrieger
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Washington, Mi
Posts: 16
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsBrewery View Post
Is the green line a ground or neutral? The 240v plug for the element should have a true ground, but the PID shouldn't be powered by HOT A and a ground. This is a bad combination.
Ground, as I understand it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsBrewery View Post
I'd guess your heating issue may be with settings in the PID - have you double checked?
I followed the settings listed on Kal's site and left the rest of the settings at factory. Sn to 21 for RTD probe, Pb I left at 0, Filt to 5, A-M to 0, and ensured that COOL was set to 10 (factory). Only thing I didn't check is auto-tuning, but...

Between posts I ran another test, setting manual mode at 40%. I noted that while the light on my SSR (appears to show if it's got voltage on the input side) is off, I'll still get the heater on. Lower manual numbers cycle that light on and off, and I get the heater cycling on/off.

Joe
__________________
jmrieger is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-28-2012, 03:29 AM   #4
lschiavo
Drinks Beer
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
lschiavo's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Surrounded by Yoopers
Posts: 3,917
Liked 742 Times on 492 Posts
Likes Given: 510

Default

The first thing I would do is tie terminal 9 on the pid to black (of course disconnect from ground). The pid can be powered by 240V (please verify).
It may be unrelated but I've seen some strange things happen with improper grounding and electronics.

__________________
lschiavo is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-28-2012, 09:29 AM   #5
BadNewsBrewery
Basement Brewer
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
BadNewsBrewery's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Severn, MD
Posts: 1,068
Liked 108 Times on 89 Posts
Likes Given: 36

Default

^^^ Bingo. Using your ground line as a hacked 120 neutral, while not necessarily your heating problem, is definitely a problem. It's also sounding like a bad SSR if it wont cycle or is leaking substantial current. Do you have a multi-meter?

__________________
Building a Bad News Brewery - eHERMS

2014:
5gal Scottish Wee Heavy
5gal Saison
15gal American Pale Ale
20gal Belgian Wit (10 dumped)


Keg 1: Apfelwein
Keg 2: Belgian Wit (Failure)
Keg 3: American Pale Ale
Fermenting: Belgian Wit (Take 2)
BadNewsBrewery is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-29-2012, 03:41 PM   #6
lschiavo
Drinks Beer
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
lschiavo's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Surrounded by Yoopers
Posts: 3,917
Liked 742 Times on 492 Posts
Likes Given: 510

Default

Any luck with this? I am curious what the problem may have been.

__________________
lschiavo is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-29-2012, 04:09 PM   #7
jmrieger
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Washington, Mi
Posts: 16
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lschiavo View Post
Any luck with this? I am curious what the problem may have been.
I have a new SSR coming in today, as I have the feeling that's the culprit. I'll post my results.

I did re-wire to run the PID off of 240 instead of sharing the ground as suggested, but that didn't solve the root issue.

Unfortunately I don't have a working multimeter at the moment. If the replacement SSR doesn't solve the problem, I'll purchase one and see if I can't track down a short or leak somewhere.
__________________
jmrieger is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-29-2012, 07:23 PM   #8
jmrieger
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Washington, Mi
Posts: 16
Default

My final answer: Bad Solid State Relay.

My new relay came in today. I tested by bumping to a 100% manual boil from 65*F to 125*F, then bumping manual power down to 50%. Heater cycled on/off as expected. Kicked back to 100% manual for 2 minutes, then 0% manual, and heater shut off.

Thank you to both lschiavo and BadNewsBrewery for the help, specifically related to my ground wiring issue.

Joe

__________________
jmrieger is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-29-2012, 07:50 PM   #9
lschiavo
Drinks Beer
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
lschiavo's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Surrounded by Yoopers
Posts: 3,917
Liked 742 Times on 492 Posts
Likes Given: 510

Default

Glad you got it sorted out. Happy brewing

__________________
lschiavo is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-30-2012, 12:07 AM   #10
BadNewsBrewery
Basement Brewer
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
BadNewsBrewery's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Severn, MD
Posts: 1,068
Liked 108 Times on 89 Posts
Likes Given: 36

Default

Cheers!!

__________________
Building a Bad News Brewery - eHERMS

2014:
5gal Scottish Wee Heavy
5gal Saison
15gal American Pale Ale
20gal Belgian Wit (10 dumped)


Keg 1: Apfelwein
Keg 2: Belgian Wit (Failure)
Keg 3: American Pale Ale
Fermenting: Belgian Wit (Take 2)
BadNewsBrewery is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
BCS-460 wiring? alowell DIY Projects 22 08-04-2013 03:41 AM
Keezer Collar Temp Controller Wiring & Fan Wiring Questions. Revvy DIY Projects 12 09-23-2012 01:21 PM
Having issues wiring in my temp controller... mojo2008 DIY Projects 6 06-19-2012 03:25 AM
For Sale - Price Check! Possibly Selling Back Issues Lot: 89 Zymurgy Issues and more... bopgun23 For Sale 9 07-22-2011 12:36 AM
Another HLT wiring Q? ol' rummie DIY Projects 0 11-24-2009 12:26 PM