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Old 11-05-2010, 02:27 AM   #1
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Default Why only a single gfci main supply, but no individual circuit protection???

Just curious. Seems like I've seen builds with a single gfci breaker or power cord supplying the power to the box, but nothing to protect each circuit such as: HLT, Kettle, Pump, etc. Is it even needed since the whole project is gfci protected?

Would it be better to supply a project with a 60 amp gfci spa panel, then split that power supply off to each circuit's own breaker, so a 25A 240 breaker for the 5500w kettle, a 20A 240 breaker for the 4500w HLT, a 15A 120 breaker for the RIMS 1500w element, a 15A breaker for the pump and 12v transformer?

Just trying to plan out a system, if I can run it all off of a 60A gfci spa panel and be safe, that would save me some money!

Steve



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Old 11-05-2010, 03:18 AM   #2
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The entire rig can be GFCI protected with a single device but, yes, you need over current protection in the box. Kinda like:


Ed



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Old 11-05-2010, 03:20 AM   #3
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Beat me to it Ed!

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Old 11-05-2010, 12:26 PM   #4
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Individual circuit protection is very important. If a heating element goes Chernobyl on you, it can just sit there and melt without causing a short to trip the GFCI. Same with a stalled pump or anything else that can go wrong.

Those breakers are about $8.00 a piece and easily mountable on DIN rail inside the cabinet.

It's a small price to pay.

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What does the primary pressure gauge on the tank tell us? That's right, the temperature. Put it on a scale if you want to know how much is in it...
Put some duct tape over the gauge - Or better yet - Replace the high pressure gauge with a plug - High pressure gauges are useless!
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Old 11-05-2010, 02:07 PM   #5
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Awesome guys! Thanks. I will make arrangements for proper circuit protection.

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Old 11-05-2010, 02:08 PM   #6
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Ohio Ed - Great looking Panel.

As far as the circuit breakers you are using, what size did you use for your elements and pumps ?

I was thinking the following for mine:

- 4500 W elements - 18.75 Amp draw at 240 Volts - I was thinking of this one, 20 Amps, 2 pole, fast blow - C curve...http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Circuit_Protection_-z-_Fuses_-z-_Disconnects/UL_489_Miniature_Circuit_Breakers/Double_Pole_Mini_Circuit_Breakers_%280.5A-40A,_WMZT2_Series%29/C_Curve_%280.5A-40A,_WMZT2Cxx%29/WMZT2C20

March / Chugger pumps - thinking this one @ 2 amps, single pole - slow blow (D-curve)....http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Circuit_Protection_-z-_Fuses_-z-_Disconnects/UL_489_Miniature_Circuit_Breakers/Single_Pole_Mini_Circuit_Breakers_%280.5A-40A,_WMZT1_Series%29/D_Curve_%280.5A-40A,_WMZT1Dxx%29/WMZT1D02

I'd appreciate any advice.

Also, Ohio-Ed, how did you attach your contactor to the Din rail ? I see yours is attached to the Din rail. I was looking for a contactor that is Din mountable, but can't and will end up with Auberins or something similar.

Kal, - great website on your build. Question for you, did you provide over current protection after the GFCI, or in your build is that not necessary ?

Thanks again,

Bill

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Old 11-05-2010, 02:13 PM   #7
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Those breakers are fine.

Good call on slo-blow for the inductive loads.

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What does the primary pressure gauge on the tank tell us? That's right, the temperature. Put it on a scale if you want to know how much is in it...
Put some duct tape over the gauge - Or better yet - Replace the high pressure gauge with a plug - High pressure gauges are useless!
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Old 11-05-2010, 02:31 PM   #8
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I think the "responsible" answer is that all lower current branches need protection but I'm personally not going to worry about it on my build except for low current fuses on the controllers and pumps.

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Old 11-05-2010, 03:22 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Windsors View Post
Ohio Ed - Great looking Panel.

As far as the circuit breakers you are using, what size did you use for your elements and pumps ?

I was thinking the following for mine:

- 4500 W elements - 18.75 Amp draw at 240 Volts - I was thinking of this one, 20 Amps, 2 pole, fast blow - C curve...http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Circuit_Protection_-z-_Fuses_-z-_Disconnects/UL_489_Miniature_Circuit_Breakers/Double_Pole_Mini_Circuit_Breakers_%280.5A-40A,_WMZT2_Series%29/C_Curve_%280.5A-40A,_WMZT2Cxx%29/WMZT2C20

March / Chugger pumps - thinking this one @ 2 amps, single pole - slow blow (D-curve)....http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Circuit_Protection_-z-_Fuses_-z-_Disconnects/UL_489_Miniature_Circuit_Breakers/Single_Pole_Mini_Circuit_Breakers_%280.5A-40A,_WMZT1_Series%29/D_Curve_%280.5A-40A,_WMZT1Dxx%29/WMZT1D02

I'd appreciate any advice.

Also, Ohio-Ed, how did you attach your contactor to the Din rail ? I see yours is attached to the Din rail. I was looking for a contactor that is Din mountable, but can't and will end up with Auberins or something similar.

Kal, - great website on your build. Question for you, did you provide over current protection after the GFCI, or in your build is that not necessary ?

Thanks again,

Bill
The breakers need to be sized to carry the load required by the element, pump, etc... AND to protect the wire feeding them. Make sure you select wire capable of carrying the max current allowed by the breaker.

I used din mount clips for the contactor... screw the contactor to a couple clips, then clip them on the rail.
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Old 11-05-2010, 03:31 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby_M View Post
I think the "responsible" answer is that all lower current branches need protection but I'm personally not going to worry about it on my build except for low current fuses on the controllers and pumps.
I think that it is important that everyone build to the level that they are comfortable with. There are probably areas where I have "over built" and other areas that would make some folks uncomfortable.

I like to think that if we, as a community, can help folks understand the options, they are smart enough to build to their comfort level.

So, I agree with you Bobby. I KNOW you are aware of the risks, so I support whatever decision you make. (not that you need my support)

Ed


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