Triclamp heater element design

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TheFlyingBeer

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I am making progress with the design of my fully electric HERMS setup and am trying to finalize the heater element design.

I will be utilizing tri-clamps throughout as much as possible in an attempt to do away with screw threads for good.

Below is the proposed 5500W element design for both my HLT and my BK.
TriclampHeaterElement.JPG


I will drill a 1-1/2" tri-clamp cap and slide it down the element then silver solder or braze it to the top of the threads. I have noticed corrosion on the element threads already, I believe they are galvanized. The drilled section up to the element will be filled with some silicone sealant to keep the galvanization away from my liquor or wort.

I haven't determined what kind of enclosure I will use for the wiring, most likely a single or double-gang outdoor junction box.
TriclampHeaterElement2.JPG


A 1-1/2" Ferrule will be soldered or brazed onto the keg to mount the element to. The BK and HLT will be nearly identical, my HERMS HEX pot will use a 2500W element.
HLT-BKView.JPG


Any thoughts/suggestions?

3/5/11 Update...
Final design:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/triclamp-heater-element-design-217575/#post2574035

Results:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/triclamp-heater-element-design-217575/index2.html#post2675846

3/6/11 Update

Element mounted to keg:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/triclamp-heater-element-design-217575/index2.html#post2709094
 
Pro-E or Solid Works?
That's a cool idea!
Please document your progress and post for everyone to see.
 
Myself I don't have a problem with threads. I have use something close to that where I can un-clamp the Tri and remove the box and element. I just un-thread element to change if needed. The element threads into a 1 inch half coupler and the gasket that comes with as work for several years without a leak.

Not sure about it but I would question if the element can take that amount of heat brazing at the bake-lite but again it might.

I would think of what you have to do to change and element.

But give it a go and find out.


God Bless
Dominus Vobiscum
Swagman
 
I'll agree with Swagman, by soldering/brazing the threads you make the element a lot harder to change out if it blows. Not to mention the fact that the element probably won't withstand that much heat (from brazing/soldering) and still work. If you do decide to do it this way please report back and let us know if it worked.
 
I have the same type of tri-clover setup on my keg except I got everything pre-made on www.brewershardware.com. I am using a copper element with copper threads that I had gotten at Menards. The only problem with the 1"threaded fitting on brewer's hardware ($22 and showen on the rims system they have) is that it is long, this would not work with your ripp element. Along the lines of the wire enclosure, I use a 90 degree elbow with JB-weld and it works great (I added a 1:2 ratio of Acitone to JB weld to make sure that it flowed decently). The angle helps to keep cords out of the way and with the Tri-Clover you can easily adjust the direction it comes out. Hope this helps happy brewing!
 
Pro-E or Solid Works?
SW, it is nice to work for an engineering firm and have these tools available to me.

Not sure about it but I would question if the element can take that amount of heat brazing at the bake-lite but again it might.

Bake-lite? I assume that is the black plastic where the screw terminals are for the power, if so it has me concerned as well. Maybe JB weld would be a better option instead of soldering.

In the name of science I dismantled a $5 2500 element to see if I could get the screw head removed from the element tubing. That was a failure but I did determine the construction of these elements. The 2500W element tubing was copper with a nickle/chrome plating, inside was the resistive wire element which was then surrounded by a while powder which I assume is an electrical insulator while being a heat conductor. I can post a picture of the element I destroyed for anyone interested, will have to wait until later however.

As far as replacing the element when if it pops it will be slightly more involved that screwing it out. Maybe the better approach to easy replacement is similar to what Derrin at Brewers Hardware has put together.
 
I have the same type of tri-clover setup on my keg except I got everything pre-made on www.brewershardware.com.

Beat me to the punch by a minute or two. I did notice the neck on that triclamp adapter is long, maybe he could weld it onto a shorter ferulle.

I might try my approach first with a cheapo 2500W and based on the failure or success of that effort I will plan my next steps. I am just waiting on some additional triclamp HW and some solder flux to arrive.
 
Like I said give it a try.

Here is a couple of pictures of what I did a few years ago.


MVC-082S-1.jpg


MVC-086S.jpg


Half the tri tig welded into keg the other has mounting taps to the box unclamp and the element comes off with box and cord in one part.

God Bless
Swagman
 
I did notice the neck on that triclamp adapter is long, maybe he could weld it onto a shorter ferulle.

There are several images scattered throughout the site (main page on the fittings section) that hint he has already done this. Also the biggest benefit I have seen with this set up is I can still use my E-Keggle on a burner which for a year I couldn't. All I do is throw a blank in the clamp and a ptfe gasket to handle the heat. This is by far the best project I have done so far for brewing, you will not regret it
 
I was already going to have him put together some temperature probe tubes for me, might have to add this to the list. I would still plan on filling the void with a silicone sealant as I am not comfortable with the material used on the threads.
 
Swagman:
That is slicker than snot! You can undo the triclamp, clean the element and then slap it back on without messing with the electrical connection. Did you weld a coupling into the ferrule? Is the box welded to the ferrule as well?
 
Swagman:
That is slicker than snot! You can undo the triclamp, clean the element and then slap it back on without messing with the electrical connection. Did you weld a coupling into the ferrule? Is the box welded to the ferrule as well?

Half coupling with the thread remove welds to tri and its tig into the keg. There two tabs welded to other half that bolt the box on that you can't see with a couple of 10-32's.
Here is a picture of the part Tig weld's into the keg its a half 1 inch coupler with a little lathe work

MVC-084S.jpg

God Bless
Swagman
 
Here is a picture of the part Tig weld's into the keg its a half 1 inch coupler with a little lathe work

Nice work, but why not just purchase a triclamp short/med butt-weld ferrule instead of rolling your own?

Your method of attaching the electrical box has given me some ideas that I now have to sketch out...

In reality how often do elements require replaced? I would assume being in a HLT is easier on the element than the BK. Provided the element is cleaned after use I would think it should last a long enough time that the extra work to build up a replacement is not a big issue.

I like it! Quite the industrial RIMS tube you have there.

Here are the pictures of my failed attempt to gracefully deconstruct a 2500W element. It was at least fun and I learned some things! The hacksaw won in the end.
2500WElementBreakdown2.jpg

2500WElementBreakdown.jpg
 
why not just purchase a triclamp short/med butt-weld ferrule instead of rolling your own?


Two reasons cost and the gauge of the metal.



God Bless
Swagman
 
Question: How would one go about making a 1" hole in the 1-1/2" triclamp cap? They are 1/4" thick and 316SS. I might have access to a drill press at best, hand held power drill at worst. Is a step bit going to cut it?
 
Question: How would one go about making a 1" hole in the 1-1/2" triclamp cap? They are 1/4" think and 316SS. I might have access to a drill press at best, hand held power drill at worst. Is a step bit going to cut it?

That's going to be a little hard to do. I turn them on a lathe. The half coupler is turned down for a length of .200 and 1.500 diameter that's the end that will weld into the keg. The 1.500 measurement lets you drill the hole in the keg with a 1 1/2 hole saw. The other in is turned down to about 1.350 and the cap is turned out with boring bar to that measurement. That's about the max. on the cap. Also the threads inside the coupler are remove with a boring bar. The coupler is Tig welded inside the cap and also outside.

Hope this helps

God Bless
Swagman
 
Might have to talk the guys in our machine shop into trading some homebrew for lathe work... If I could only get my hands on their 3D milling machines I would be set for this project.
 
Lots of good ideas now. I am in the final stages of ordering various odds and ends so hopefully I will have something coming together in the next few weeks.
 
I went back to the drawing board and changed the design up a little bit:

TriclampHeaterElementRev2.JPG


I won't need to modify any parts other than to solder a lock nut to the ferrule. The element will be untouched so swapping them should be dead simple. Above I show the element for my HERMS HEX tank but it would be basically the same setup for my 5500W RIP elements. I intend to bend out the RIP element a bit so it will not interfere with the keg wall or triclamp ferrule.

I plan to use an outdoor junction box similar to others that have been posted.

Here is a shot of the 5500W mated to the HLT/BK:
TriclampHeaterElementRev2HLT-BK.JPG
 
Nice! So the locknut and ferrule mate up pretty perfectly then? Might be a bit of a tricky thing to solder but with a bit of patience you should get a good bond.

Out of curiosity, why solder instead of purchasing one of the pre-made solutions that are pictured? Example below...

19403d1295444258-triclamp-heater-element-design-dscf0568.jpg
 
Out of curiosity, why solder instead of purchasing one of the pre-made solutions that are pictured?

Trying to build as much of this as possible with my own two hands, half the fun of the hobby in my opinion. I am going to practice my stainless soldering skills on some scrap from work.
 
Trying to build as much of this as possible with my own two hands, half the fun of the hobby in my opinion. I am going to practice my stainless soldering skills on some scrap from work.

I'll drink to that! :mug: Just be sure to test the bejeezus out of that solder joint.
 
Hi all,
I have been reading for days about going electric and am seriously considering a major build. My question is are all of these elements meant to be submersed in liquid or are there elements that you can use dry? The reason I ask is I think I have a different way of using an element (dry) than anything I have seen so far, and what comes to mind is the old electric stove top elements. They seem to work fine dry, could this be done with the hot water style or would they just burn themselves up, or do they make a hot water style that can be used dry?

Thanks in advance
 
My question is are all of these elements meant to be submersed in liquid or are there elements that you can use dry?

Some of the Ripple elements like the Camco 02962 claim they can be "dry fired" as in not submersed. I have never checked that claim and I don't intended to. Any of the higher wattage density elements will likely burn up if dry fired.
 
Hi all,
I have been reading for days about going electric and am seriously considering a major build. My question is are all of these elements meant to be submersed in liquid or are there elements that you can use dry? The reason I ask is I think I have a different way of using an element (dry) than anything I have seen so far, and what comes to mind is the old electric stove top elements. They seem to work fine dry, could this be done with the hot water style or would they just burn themselves up, or do they make a hot water style that can be used dry?

Thanks in advance

These "Water Heater Elements" are Immersion Elements, they are meant to be submersed. The LWD and ULWD versions can be dry fired to a point but they will fail if you do this excessively. Using stove-top elements has been done by a few folks here before, but the drawback is that not all of the heat is transferred directly to the liquid.

What are you thinking? If you've got an idea I'm sure we are all ears!
 
I normally wouldn't discourage someone from DIY, but I think you're in for a PITA with soldering the locknut to the ferrule. Some things are better left alone. A 1" FPT x 1.5" triclover (see my pic above) will work fine; just use silicone in the threads and include the gasket.

You could very easily have a pinhole leak in your soldering job, or it may not be perfectly aligned....especially as the metal expands. Plus it's a potential failure point that could be very messy/dangerous.

The single unsoldered adapter is just more pristine and won't fail on you. If you DO solder it anyway, use a metal clamp of some kind or the workpiece will shift on you.
 
Tonight I decided I would give brazing a try. When I ordered the components I purchased a couple extra of the nuts and tri-clamp ferrules so I could perfect my technique. Used Safety-Silv 56 alloy, Stay-Silv white flux, and my regular plumbing torch.

brazing-test1.jpg


For a test run the concept seems to be solid, should definitely be possible to use this design for my brewery. I am going to build a jig of some sort to make the process easier and provide a better finished item. I overheated the parts a bit, so I will have to be more careful next time.

tri-clamp-locknut1.jpg


And finally the setup assembled:

tri-clamp-element.jpg


This was just quickly cleaned up with my dremel, I think in the end I would give it a good polish to match all the other shininess :)
 
Did you have any problems with the solder running into the threads? How did you prevent that from happening?
 
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