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Old 11-10-2012, 07:58 PM   #1
BrewinBigD
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Default switcing from 4 conductor supply to 3 conductor supply

now i should know this, but wanna make sure im corect in my thinking.

I built my E brewery to match my garages wiring and the circut im on is wired for 2 hot 1 N and 1 g, so inside the controller it is wired as such.

i am moving to a new home and will be building the brewery in my basement and using my clothes dryer circut, wired 3 prong with 2 hot, 1 G.
i know that in all household panels the G and neutral meet andare wired back to the pole ofer the same conductor, so shoulndt i be able to eliminate my N wire inside the controller and jump it to the internal ground and then just wire a 3 prong connector to my cord, or should i run a dedicated neutral from the dryer outlet back to the panel and replace said outlet with a 4 prong?

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Old 11-10-2012, 11:41 PM   #2
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I would replace it with the 4 prong for sure and make sure to use a GFCI.

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Old 11-10-2012, 11:54 PM   #3
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If you're drawing 120V for pumps or whatever, switch to a neutral and ground. If you're only running 240V elements, you're fine with two hots and a ground.

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Old 11-11-2012, 03:57 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrewinBigD View Post
now i should know this, but wanna make sure im corect in my thinking.

I built my E brewery to match my garages wiring and the circut im on is wired for 2 hot 1 N and 1 g, so inside the controller it is wired as such.

i am moving to a new home and will be building the brewery in my basement and using my clothes dryer circut, wired 3 prong with 2 hot, 1 G.
i know that in all household panels the G and neutral meet andare wired back to the pole ofer the same conductor, so shoulndt i be able to eliminate my N wire inside the controller and jump it to the internal ground and then just wire a 3 prong connector to my cord, or should i run a dedicated neutral from the dryer outlet back to the panel and replace said outlet with a 4 prong?

These days it is a Code violation to use common ground/neutral if you're doing a 120/240V circuit.

iBrewR has it right. If you need 120/240V then replace the 2 wire w/ground cable with 3 wire w/ground and put in the four terminal receptacle. If the system is 240V only then what you have is fine.
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Old 11-11-2012, 04:22 AM   #5
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It's not a code violation if it's an existing circuit, which is why you are not required to rewire a 3 wire dryer outlet when buying & installing a new dryer. Instead you just buy a 3 wire pig tail and tie the ground & neutral together inside the dryer.

And the same would be true for your brewery controller - tie the neutral & ground together and you will be fine for all 240V or a mix of 120V & 240V because you are plugging into an EXISTING dryer outlet. The down side is you can't use GFI with 3 wire and a mix of 120V & 240V components.

But installing a new dryer outlet circuit has to be wired to code to be legal, which means it is supposed to be 4 wire even in older houses.

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Old 11-11-2012, 04:24 AM   #6
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Yeah, existing circuit is still legal. But, unless the basement is finished and it's a real hassle I'd still change it to a four wire system.

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Old 11-11-2012, 12:50 PM   #7
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I see no issue with just tying the N and G together inside the controller. No code violation there as it is considered an appliance. Rewiring the whole circuit in the basement would be a PITA due to the location of my setup in regards to the panel. I would just add a sub panel for the brewery but it would take some rearranging of load in the main panel to keep both sides balanced.
The only thing I worry about with using the 3 wire setup is causing a ' hot' ground while using my pumps. Never known this to be an issue before but it can happen.
I have some time before ill be able to rebuild the brewery anyway so it'll be a matter of running the options through my mind before I nail it down.
Thanks for the input guys...

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Old 11-11-2012, 01:11 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thargrav View Post
It's not a code violation if it's an existing circuit, which is why you are not required to rewire a 3 wire dryer outlet when buying & installing a new dryer. Instead you just buy a 3 wire pig tail and tie the ground & neutral together inside the dryer.

And the same would be true for your brewery controller - tie the neutral & ground together and you will be fine for all 240V or a mix of 120V & 240V because you are plugging into an EXISTING dryer outlet. The down side is you can't use GFI with 3 wire and a mix of 120V & 240V components.

But installing a new dryer outlet circuit has to be wired to code to be legal, which means it is supposed to be 4 wire even in older houses.
/\ - This is absolutely correct with one exception. The brewery can be GFCI protected. This can be acomplished by using a homedepot.com - Spa Panel and setting it up as a plug in device using the 3 wire dryer outlet.

The dryer outlet is already protected with a 30A breaker. The Spa Panel provides the GFCI protection. This is how it can be done:




Hope this helps.

P-J
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Old 11-11-2012, 02:28 PM   #9
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/\ - This is absolutely correct with one exception. The brewery can be GFCI protected. This can be acomplished by using a homedepot.com - Spa Panel and setting it up as a plug in device using the 3 wire dryer outlet.

The dryer outlet is already protected with a 30A breaker. The Spa Panel provides the GFCI protection. This is how it can be done:




Hope this helps.

P-J
This spa panel can be misleading - the GFI protection inside the panel will protect everything past the device (the spa or your home brewery), but the panel itself & incoming power connections are unprotected.

And because of this, mount them side by side and I don't see much gain. But knowing this I can see how this spa panel would make a great brew controller housing with the GFI protection serving as the main incoming disconnect. You would still be protecting your brew pot and any hot wiring past the disconnect.

But my opinion of all of this is still the same. Make sure you have good solid grounds and you follow sound wiring practices and you disconnect the main power before working on anything and you don't need GFI.
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Old 11-11-2012, 02:30 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by BrewinBigD View Post
The only thing I worry about with using the 3 wire setup is causing a ' hot' ground while using my pumps. Never known this to be an issue before but it can happen.
This is a non-issue with good solid grounds.
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