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Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Electric Brewing > Switching 5500W Element Between 120V & 240V
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Old 02-25-2014, 03:43 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by MT_Keg View Post
The10mmKid is right... I want to operate the 5500 W element in an Ultra Ultra Low Watt Density Mode (approx. 1375 W?) while mashing to prevent/mitigate the chance of scorching. The PID will cycle the element on and off via a SSR; I don't believe the PID/SSR combo will control the voltage to the element.



I will not be using it within a RIMS or HERMS... I am using it in a single vessel with the element at the bottom and using the BIAB method. I would hate to have 2 elements in the bottom of my kettle and running two supply wires to it. Thank you for your suggestion.

The10mmKid... Thanks for your help... Originally this schematic came from P-J... Hopefully he will take a look at this thread and discuss the original switch selection. I will look into the switch you suggested!

Does anyone know if anyone has this type of setup (with a single element running either 120V or 240V in the same kettle)?

Again, thank you all for your help and suggestions!

MT
ah yes I did mention that I thought this would be one configuration where it would really make sense... thanks for clarifying. I think bobbym might be able to help as the video in his latest post seems to show a device wired to do exactly what your trying to accomplish. (Although it was for a different use)

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/dem...a-rims-461533/
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Old 02-25-2014, 04:02 AM   #12
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A center OFF is good but a simple double throw switch would never be connected to both sources unless the contact was severly distorted, as in lengthened. The center OFF is just a resting place, otherwise it is the same inside.

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Old 02-25-2014, 10:22 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MT_Keg View Post
I want to operate the 5500 W element in an Ultra Ultra Low Watt Density Mode (approx. 1375 W?) while mashing to prevent/mitigate the chance of scorching. The PID will cycle the element on and off via a SSR; I don't believe the PID/SSR combo will control the voltage to the element.
Use SSVR with potentiometer and PID's relay output.
This way you can gradually control a power.
ssvr.png  
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Old 02-26-2014, 12:27 AM   #14
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Use SSVR with potentiometer and PID's relay output.
This way you can gradually control a power.
I contacted Auberins; they stated the following: "Actually the SSVR could not work with any of the controllers. They are exclusive."

Why would Auberins state this?... Is the SSVR not meant for this application?

I am not 100% sure how this would operate and what type of resolution I would get... Would I truly be able to turn down 240V down to 120V and everywhere in between?... or would I be controlling the amperage to the element keeping the voltage constant?

I am going to take a gander on the site to find some examples. If you guys have any examples of the above that would be awesome!

Thank you all for your help!... Again, sorry for all the questions!

MT
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Old 02-26-2014, 01:00 AM   #15
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I contacted Auberins; they stated the following: "Actually the SSVR could not work with any of the controllers. They are exclusive."
It's correct in terms that you must not connect PID's SSR output to SSVR. If you do so you'll just break the PID.
But SSVR can be connected to PID's mechanical relay output. Some PIDs has only SSR output or only relay output. However other PIDs (like Auber SYL-2362) can be programmed to use either SSR or relay as an output.

Quote:
I am not 100% sure how this would operate and what type of resolution I would get... Would I truly be able to turn down 240V down to 120V and everywhere in between?... or would I be controlling the amperage to the element keeping the voltage constant?
According to Omh law for passive load you cant change voltage and keep amperage constant or vice versa. If you decreasing voltage your amps goes down as well. If you decreasing amps it means voltage increased too.

Rotating potentiometer connected to SSVR you are gradually changing Voltage (and Amperage) from 0 to Max.
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Old 02-26-2014, 01:22 AM   #16
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If you already have that SYL-2352 PID MT, then you are back to wiring 120V to the toggle switch.

Brumatueur's PID is a relay output type. Very easy to wire also, just need to give the otput some voltage verses the PID making it's own (12VDC in your case)

Did you find a 30A rotary? If you meant a selector switch (like ON-left/OFF-middle/ON-right), they are more common. 30A is still a heck of a contact.

'da Kid

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Old 02-26-2014, 02:14 AM   #17
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The10mmKid and Brumateur... thank you all for your help in understanding the options and how to get it done. I am going to ponder which route I want to go... haven't bought anything yet! I am not sure if i really need more granularity in my control of the element wattage.

My initial plan was to setup and auto-tune the PID to 120V, heat the water to my mash temperature and let the 120V circuit control the mash temperature. Once I mashout and remove the grain from the kettle I would switch to 240V mode and control the boil manually via the PID... essentially I will get a 1375 W OR a 5500 W element.

On the other hand I would have to use the Rheostat to dial in my preferred mashing wattage (anywhere between 0 W and 5500 W) and auto-tune the PID (I will have a volt meter and ammeter on the panel to verify the wattage to the element with each brew). The PID will then control my mash temperature at my dialed in mash wattage. Once I mashout and remove the grain from the kettle I would turn the rheostat to full power and control the boil manually via the PID.

I do know one thing... I am probably better off getting a SYL-2362 because of the flexability.

'da Kid... I gave up trying to find a rotary replacement for the toggle... better I think I am better off with the toggle if I go that route.

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Originally Posted by The10mmKid View Post

...Very easy to wire also, just need to give the output some voltage verses the PID making it's own (12VDC in your case)
What did you mean by the above statement? Do you have a diagram/example that describes this a little better? I can't seem to get my head wrapped around it.

Thanks,

MT
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Old 02-26-2014, 06:59 AM   #18
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The PID's with relay output are called "dry contacts"
They are just like your contactor . . . . . just way less amp capacity.

You need to supply the voltage to these 'dry contacts' that's required for your SSR. (would be 3-35VDC on the circuit you provided)

We use 240V SSR's at work.

240V control
240V Load

The SSR handles the 25A load while the PID has a light job of 'firing' the SSR.


FYI, I like your initial plan. You can set your temp to 225degF for boil and it will be full power as water will never get above ~212

'da Kid

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Old 02-27-2014, 10:47 PM   #19
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After a little more research I have decided to go with the 120V/240V method with the DPDT switch and a PID... I feel the SSVR is overkill.

I will try and draft up a complete circuit diagram for your review.

Thank you all for your knowledge!!

MT

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Old 02-28-2014, 12:29 AM   #20
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SSVR solution is simpler than wiring extra switch and you will have more flexibility.

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