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Old 02-24-2014, 01:47 AM   #1
MT_Keg
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Default Switching 5500W Element Between 120V & 240V

I have been searching through the forum looking to see if someone has designed a e-biab setup that allows for control of a single element (5500 W) with 120V and 240V (I will be using a pid temperature controller). I would use the 120V for controlling my mash temperature and invoke the 240V to boil. I have seen the following schematic which only shows the 240V portion can this be easily modified with a hand switch to include a 120V option?

Thanks for your help and thoughts!

MT

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Old 02-24-2014, 01:55 AM   #2
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Why?
The whole point of the ssvr/ potentiometer or pid is it will regulate and control the heat level from the element...
I must be missing something?

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Old 02-24-2014, 02:21 AM   #3
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The OP probably wants to run the element in 'low density' mode during the mash to prevent any chance of scorching. Sound insurance.

It can be done. You will basically be swapping the second hot lead with the neutral.

If that Switch #1 is a "break before make" style, you can use it.

Find that out and I can help you with rewiring that switch.

'da Kid

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Old 02-24-2014, 02:25 AM   #4
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Hey MT, I just looked at that switch on Grainger.com and it is NOT rated for that 5500W element.

'da Kid

This one does:
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/NKK...PE7?Pid=search

Quite the price difference.

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Old 02-24-2014, 02:27 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The10mmKid View Post
The OP probably wants to run the element in 'low density' mode during the mash to prevent any chance of scorching. Sound insurance.

It can be done. You will basically be swapping the second hot lead with the neutral.

If that Switch #1 is a "break before make" style, you can use it.

Find that out and I can help you with rewiring that switch.

'da Kid
I guess I'm confused by how he would be using an element inside a rims system inside his boil kettle since he stated its the same element?
I think he just plans on using his boil kettle to heat the mash water or maintain the temp for a herms coil and in that case it makes no sense or am I still missing something?
does he plan on pulling the element and moving it from a rims to a bk or is he doing some sort of BIAB with the element at the bottom maybe? I guess scorching could be possible then.
it just seems like theres got to be an easier way or that it makes more sense to just buy a second 120v element for like $12-$13 at least?
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Old 02-24-2014, 02:38 AM   #6
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Basically the switch #1 commons will feed the element receptacle.

I would wire the switch:
Pin
1 = empty
2 = Element Receptacle (right)
3 = Feed from the SSR pin #2
4 = Neutral
5 = Hot
6 = Element Receptacle (left)

With the switch having an 'OFF' center, it should be 'break-before-make' switches.

'da Kid

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Old 02-24-2014, 10:32 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by augiedoggy View Post
Why?
The whole point of the ssvr/ potentiometer or pid is it will regulate and control the heat level from the element...
I must be missing something?
The10mmKid is right... I want to operate the 5500 W element in an Ultra Ultra Low Watt Density Mode (approx. 1375 W?) while mashing to prevent/mitigate the chance of scorching. The PID will cycle the element on and off via a SSR; I don't believe the PID/SSR combo will control the voltage to the element.

Quote:
Originally Posted by augiedoggy View Post
I guess I'm confused by how he would be using an element inside a rims system inside his boil kettle since he stated its the same element?
I think he just plans on using his boil kettle to heat the mash water or maintain the temp for a herms coil and in that case it makes no sense or am I still missing something?
does he plan on pulling the element and moving it from a rims to a bk or is he doing some sort of BIAB with the element at the bottom maybe? I guess scorching could be possible then.
it just seems like theres got to be an easier way or that it makes more sense to just buy a second 120v element for like $12-$13 at least?
I will not be using it within a RIMS or HERMS... I am using it in a single vessel with the element at the bottom and using the BIAB method. I would hate to have 2 elements in the bottom of my kettle and running two supply wires to it. Thank you for your suggestion.

The10mmKid... Thanks for your help... Originally this schematic came from P-J... Hopefully he will take a look at this thread and discuss the original switch selection. I will look into the switch you suggested!

Does anyone know if anyone has this type of setup (with a single element running either 120V or 240V in the same kettle)?

Again, thank you all for your help and suggestions!

MT
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Old 02-24-2014, 10:40 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MT_Keg View Post

Does anyone know if anyone has this type of setup (with a single element running either 120V or 240V in the same kettle)?
El Bobberino does. http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/dem...a-rims-461533/
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Old 02-25-2014, 12:08 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The10mmKid View Post
Hey MT, I just looked at that switch on Grainger.com and it is NOT rated for that 5500W element.

'da Kid

This one does:
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/NKK...PE7?Pid=search

Quite the price difference.
Did a quick search... and found the same switch for a little more than half the price:
http://www.newark.com/nkk-switches/s...vac/dp/10X9546


- What do you mean by: 'break-before-make'?

- Instead of a toggle switch is there a rotary switch that could be used?

Sorry for so many additional questions!

Thanks for your help and thanks iijakii for that link!

MT
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Old 02-25-2014, 12:14 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MT_Keg View Post
Did a quick search... and found the same switch for a little more than half the price:
http://www.newark.com/nkk-switches/s...vac/dp/10X9546


- What do you mean by: 'break-before-make'?

- Instead of a toggle switch is there a rotary switch that could be used?

Sorry for so many additional questions!

Thanks for your help and thanks iijakii for that link!

MT
Break-before-make: If you look at the switch in your link, you have to go through "Off" before switching from one "On" throw to the other. This should make sure that the 240v leg circuit has been opened before the 120v leg circuit is closed, and vice versa. This is critical for this application, as you want to ensure that both circuits are never closed at the same time.
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